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  • From: "Tradingpost" <tradingpost@gilanet.com>
  • To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Way of life
  • Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 21:37:14 -0600


Deborah, what I'm trying to clarify is why Permaculture is being redefined to
include almost anything from 10,000 acre cattle ranches to balcony lettuce
pots on the 60th floor of a Manhattan apartment. And the replies raise the
question of why bringing up the original concept of Permaculture gets such a
hostile reaction. And why this list disavows completely the original concept
of Permaculture as envisioned by those who coined the term. A simple
explanation would be nice.

paul@largocreekfarms.com
http://medicinehill.net

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

On 10/25/2004 at 9:50 PM Deborah wrote:

>***Highly presumptious statement. Doesn't matter whether Mollison or
>anyone else says it, I say that permaculture can be thoroughly practiced
>in NYC. Permaculture can be practiced anywhere whether you live in a
>60th-floor apartment (ever heard of organic hydroponics?, aquaponics?) or
>on a 10000 acre cattle ranch in the middle of Iowa. No matter where you
>go, there you are.***
>
>Certainly, different aspects of PC can be practiced anywhere. But, how
>sustainable is an apt on the 60th floor, even the 3rd floor? And
>particularly if there's no energy to pump water? No water... no
>hydroponics or aquaponics... or people.
>Without energy, no elevators. Do you walk up and down 60 flights of stairs
>every time you want to go outdoors, or to the garden which might be in
>zone 10?
>At best, PCizing a high rise apt seems like an acceptable interim
>strategy. It seems that it might be difficult to be in touch with Earth
>when one is not in touch with Earth, but 20, 40, 60 ft above her.
>I applaud anyone who attempts PC in the city, much less an apt building,
>but I find it really hard to imagine providing all (or even a majority) of
>one's needs in an apt.
>I visited some of the links to the 'green' apts in NYC. I don't mean to
>minimize or be critical, so don't hear it that way, but, does each apt
>need its own washer and dryer? Were they designed for cross ventilation?
>The photos didn't look 'green' to me. In fact I saw no green space and
>very few trees. I saw many things that could've been designed differently
>and better.
>I look forward to hearing from folks in NYC, or any city for that matter,
>about things they figure out.
>Deborah
>
>
>Why debate whether it can be done, just go and do it, do something new and
>innovative.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Lawrence F. London, Jr.<mailto:lfl@intrex.net>
> To: permaculture<mailto:permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 11:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Way of life
>
>
> Tradingpost wrote:
>
> > Perhaps you'll be good enough to show us where in Mollison &
>Holmgren's original work that the permaculture
> > concept can be lived in the city or under a bridge. I'd like to see
>it.
>
> Highly presumptious statement. Doesn't matter whether Mollison or anyone
>else says it, I say that permaculture can
> be thoroughly practiced in NYC. Permaculture can be practiced anywhere
>whether you live in a 60th-floor apartment
> (ever heard of organic hydroponics?, aquaponics?) or on a 10000 acre
>cattle ranch in the middle of Iowa. No matter
> where you go, there you are.
>
> Why debate whether it can be done, just go and do it, do something new
>and innovative.
>
> LL
> --
> L.F.London
> lfl@intrex.net<mailto:lfl@intrex.net>
> http://market-farming.com<http://market-farming.com/>
> http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech<http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech>
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