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permaculture - Re: [permaculture] Community Pc Gardens?

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  • From: Rick Valley <bamboogrove@cmug.com>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Community Pc Gardens?
  • Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 11:32:26 -0700

SO... after so many conflapulations over meaning on this list...

I did a quick read of *The Octopus and the Orangutan* (more True Tales of
Animal Intrigue, Intelligence and Ingenuity) by Eugene Linden, I ran into
this morsel, in a chapter on language in a passage talking about work done
by the Institute for Research on Learning. In looking towards how to make a
computer that could converse with humans, the people at IRL came up against
a lack of agreement on exactly what constitutes language and intelligence.
As Linden relates:
"much of conversation consists of coming to a mutual understanding of what
the relationship is between the two speakers, and from there what the
conversation will be about-- in essence, establishing the context that
allows two speakers to understand the various shades of meaning of the
messages passed back and forth"
"Much of the communication between humans involves non-linguistic
factors........... More interesting is the notion that the very meaning of
words remains uncertain until these terms of reference have been
established"

Besides our continual flame-ups, I can relate this to the "where are you
from" thread of 7-8 months ago, and my personnal limited-time driven habit
of prioritizing reading only the postings on a thread which are from
individuals I have some sort of relationship with, even if it is only from
this list- the "known" at least.

So, for instance, with the thread on Community Gardens, we are on a course
of talking about "permaculture" community gardens. What does "permaculture
community garden" mean? For those who are long-term involved in Pc it
probably has sets of elements that show fair congruence, but for someone who
hasn't become known to us we don't have much idea about what it means for
them and they probably don't have much idea about what it means for us.

I can relate this importance of setting the context to the recurring
discussion of how best to teach Pc; for me, with my own need for information
in spatial forms, and my kinesthetic sense, I prefer images, multi-mode
learning environments, hands-on, and it's hard for me to imagine how you can
communicate effectively with email correspondence. And yet, the power of ONE
"written" letter going to a huge community with little filtering is pretty
heady. (pun intended) With time and improvement of the tech, it'll of course
be easier to include sound and visuals in cyber communication, and I look
forward to that!

It's been very good that it's been clarified in our discussions what the
purpose of permaculture certification is for various members of the list.

Well- I'm off to plumb a greywater basin before the temperature drives me
into the shade.

-Rick































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