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  • From: Russ Grayson <pacedge@magna.com.au>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] regional diets
  • Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:42:59 +1000

Thanks Robyn and all the others for following up my comments on hydrogen fuel. As you can see, my knowledge of it is superficial (yes, influenced by Lovins).

On Tuesday, June 17, 2003, at 08:40 AM, ERDA Institute wrote:
2. Even with such a readily available energy efficient fuel source I don't
believe life can continue "as usual" - society's appetite for consuming
resources across the board is definitely not sustainable - there'd still
need to be big changes to a low consumer society irrespective of source of
fuel for energy.

Robyn

As you suggest Robyn, excessive consumption includes more than energy sources.

It is this notion of a low-energy/resource consumption society that is interesting. When I worked at UNSW for Dr Ted Trainer some years ago (Ted Trainer is a lecturer at UNSW in Sydney and author; he advocates a 'limits to growth' approach), the reaction by students to Ted's prescription for what he calls a 'conserver society' was either outright rejection on the grounds of impracticality or a curiousity about what such a society would look like. For a few students, the curiousity led to support for Ted's ideas, but for most it was more of an academic exercise reinforced by the tutorials and assignments on the theme. These, though, were good for challenging existing patterns of thinking.

My observation is that many people discount such a society because they take it to imply a reduction in their standard of living or a society characterised by a mild form of deprivation. I understand why people who have read Ted's books might take this view because Ted's is a low-tech, craft/manual-based approach to providing our needs. I believe that this approach can work and, at his Pigface Point property in Sydney, Ted lives this approach. But it is not an approach that appeals to people immersed in a hi-tech society, and, I believe, this is another reason for the rejection of Ted's approach.

So, can we take a hi-tech approach to a conserver society? Surely people on this list would be supportive of some version of this approach, given that they make use of computer-based communication with its infrastructure of satellites and telecommunications networks. Just what would such a society look like? What hi-tech tools would we use (apart from computers and telecomms). How would such technologies relate to Ted's idea for a society that did not have a growth economy but that fluctuated around a more or less stable mean? What would permaculture teachers in rural areas do if students could not jump an aircraft and travel (or drive) sometimes a couple thousand kilometres for a course?

Just vague wonderings, I know.

...Russ Grayson





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