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  • From: Mitra <mitra_lists@earth.path.net>
  • To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org, <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Re: big ag in Pc
  • Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 08:54:59 +1000

The reaction to the questions about industrial architecture surprises me, wouldn't it be smarter to use permaculture's own philosophy here, just applied to the human context rather than plants.

We all know that the most interesting places in permaculture are the edges. If we look at conventional industrialised agriculture as a weed that has take over the bulk of the system, then it seems to me there are several edges between permaculture ad it, including:

* Improving the effectiveness of permaculturists to make them more competitive, for example much of the advice on this list fits into that category.
* Expanding permaculture into areas friendly to it - e.g. encouraging organic farmers to adopt permaculture.
* Expanding permaculture into new areas - people who don't grow their own food at this time.
* Encouraging mechanised/industrial agriculture to try some elements of permaculture.

By ignoring the last edge, by discouraging industrial farmers who start asking intelligent questions, is discounting probably the most potent way of reducing the harm done to our planet. Given the amount of land in mechanised production, even a 10% reduction in the harm it does to the environment will have far more effect than doubling the number of people practicing permaculture.

We cannot ignore the majority system out there which is trashing our planet, our models have to work and be viable in their interface with it. I see my own work (helping create businesses around sustainability) as very much related to that, we need models that allow permaculture (and other sustainability) ideas to thrive in the "real" world or our effect will always be limited to those few early adopters who are willing to make personal sacrifices for the good of the environment.

- Mitra

At 06:46 AM 8/30/2002 +0930, Wesley Trotman wrote:
Are you for real? I thought this was a discussion group for Pc not
industrialised agriculture.
This planet cannot shrink the individuals eco footprint while we continue in
the use of industrial agricultural. Food production must become a very
individual personal activity and then only then will we personally accept
the reduction in energy subsidised inputs.
A primary concern of all should be the way humans have shortcircuited the
closed loop of eco systems, which includes food.
The looming petroleum reserves end and global warming in themselves will
force our societies to change food production practices. Also dont forget
pollution is the result of the short circuiting of the life loops.

Rick said
> I know a farmer who grew fava beans and wheat together, and combined them
> together, and sifted them apart.
>
> I know another who intercrops hazels and walnuts, running sheep and
turkeys
> under them, and of course has bees that work the flowers. That's just ONE
> part of his farm.
>
> The startling thing is not that it's hard to do larger permacultures, but
> that with all the economic trends and invisible structures barring the
way,
> so many are managing to farm in a permacultural manner.
> -Rick





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