North American Fruit Explorers mailing list at ibiblio

["Webmail wynne" <wynne@crcwnet.com>]

I wonder where apples, pears, and plums fit into the Boron preference
charts?
we grow tree fruits in nc washington state and we apply solubor boron
 the following is from the www.groworganic.com site
wynne@jerzyboyz farm   www.jerzyboyz.com

Solubor Boron (50 Lb)
Category: Organic Fertilizer:Trace Minerals


Click to see larger picture
 Item # Quantity  Unit Price
F200 1-4  $89.99
F200 5-9  5% off
F200 10-39  10% off
F200 40+  20% off


      Quantity:
In Stock!

Boron Natural, mined and purified boron should be used in very small
amounts because it can become toxic to plants if over-applied. Use as
a foliar at .25-3 lb/acre. Solubor, a soluble boron with 20.5% boron,
is immediately available to plants.
 Find everything you need to know about fertilizing organically over
at our info page: InTheLoop.GrowOrganic.com





On 1/12/09, nafex-request@lists.ibiblio.org
<nafex-request@lists.ibiblio.org> wrote:
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>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: alleopathy of Carya sp. (Mark Angermayer)
>    2. Re: boron questions (Steve)
>    3. pecan alleopathy (Alan Haigh)
>    4. The Grape Grower (book recommendation) (Matt Demmon)
>    5. NAFEX Annual Meeting - Grand Junction,  Colorado - August
>       27-29, 2009 (bmn@iglou.com)
>    6. Re: Anthony Curcio :Honeyberry (Kathryn Mathews)
>    7. Rootstocks (Harrick, Barbara)
>    8. Grape selection, southeast (Hilborn.E@epamail.epa.gov)
>    9. Re: nafex Digest, Vol 72, Issue 30 ( Creeping question for
>       Scott Hills- Anthony) (Anthony Curcio)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 14:13:39 -0600
> From: "Mark Angermayer" <hangermayer@isp.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAFEX] alleopathy of Carya sp.
> To: "North American Fruit Explorers" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <003f01c97429$197d6820$ac1af504@computer5>
> Content-Type: text/plain;     charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Lucky wrote:
>
> "They grew, without fruiting, for
> nearly 30 years, until my parents had to replace the
> drain tile from the septic tank, necessitating
> trenching right between the walnut and the
> pomegranates - all but killing the walnut."
>
> Lucky,
>
> Do you have an idea what percentage of the roots were severed?  I ask
> because last summer we ran a bunch of field tile to try to get rid of some
> sub-surface water.  In the process, we cut a trench along the property line
> and cut through the roots my neighbor's large thorny honeylocust.  Why folks
> around here would want to keep a thorny locust is beyond me, but whatever.
> Anyway, I hope I didn't kill the neighbor's tree, so I'm wondering how much
> root mass can be safely severed from a 60+ foot tree?
>
> Mark
> KS
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 16:54:42 -0500
> From: Steve <sdw12986@aol.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAFEX] boron questions
> To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <496A6AA2.5010205@aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>
>
> Ernest Plutko wrote:
>> It works but typed an i instead of a 1.    modf1 one).   Doesn't work
>> let me know.
>
> That's better. Here's the link copied (not typed) from the web site:
> http://web1.msue.msu.edu/imp/modf1/05209709.html
>
> I find this to be a shame:
> "Boron requirements vary greatly from crop to crop. Rates
> required for responsive crops such as alfalfa, celery,
> sugar beets and table beets can cause serious damage to
> small grains, beans, peas and cucumbers."
>
> I guess that means there isn't some average Boron level that would work
> with just about all crops. It makes me wonder how I managed to grow
> beets and cucumbers withing several feet of each other in the same garden.
>
> I wonder where apples, pears, and plums fit into the Boron preference
> charts?
>
> Steve
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 17:01:03 -0500
> From: "Alan Haigh" <alandhaigh@gmail.com>
> Subject: [NAFEX] pecan alleopathy
> To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> Message-ID:
>       <1f544d60901111401g6b7f2f9kb5d394c76a1f214d@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Lucky wrote, "when you've severed the roots of these pecans and
> seen a concurrent improvement in the lot of the
> peaches, is it because you've caused a reduction in
> juglone, or removed a significant degree of root
> competition?"
>
> No, I manage the competition of nearby forest trees in a lot of the sites I
> manage and it affects all the species I try to grow- this is specifically a
> peach problem at this site.  In the worst cases of competition from forest
> trees at other sites this trenching method has been succesful.  Once the
> fruit trees are established they hold there own.
>
> Peaches do need more water than other trees but the problem at this site
> gets even worse on wet years.  If you have never seen a correlation with
> pecan and stunted growth of peaches I am really at a loss on this one.
>
> The biggest mystery is that the trees grow with excellent vigor immediately
> after planting and than runt out later.  The same thing with the
> raspberries.  Peaches are growing well in the same general area further away
> from the pecans but just as close to forest trees as competitive for water
> and nutrients as the pecans.  If the trees didn't grow well at first I might
> be able to attribute the problem to some kind of toxicity in the soil (let's
> say excess boron to be topical).
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 19:57:29 -0500
> From: "Matt Demmon" <mdemmon@gmail.com>
> Subject: [NAFEX] The Grape Grower (book recommendation)
> To: "nafex list" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID:
>       <ab99ebde0901111657j66659d59wf199cbd154e0be34@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I just got The Grape Grower by NAFEX member Lon Rombough for
> Christmas, and I have to say it is an excellent book. Fascinating
> reading even if you aren't a grape fanatic, lots of info about
> breeding and propagation and of course growing excellent grapes. The
> chapter on propagation is especially excellent, with the best
> explanation of how cuttings root I've ever read. Highly informative
> and relevant to rooting cuttings of any species. Great book!
>
> -matt
> se Michigan
> zone 5
>
> --
> -matt demmon
> photos: www.flickr.com/photos/farmerdemmon
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 23:05:24 -0500
> From: bmn@iglou.com
> Subject: [NAFEX] NAFEX Annual Meeting - Grand Junction,       Colorado -
>       August 27-29, 2009
> To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <496AC184.6040201@iglou.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>
> The preliminary information and registration form for the NAFEX Annual
> Meeting - Grand Junction, Colorado - August 27-29, 2009 is now available
> on our website at:
>
> http://www.nafex.org/meeting.htm
>
> More details will follow as they are confirmed.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 05:43:28 -0600
> From: "Kathryn Mathews" <kathmath@charterinternet.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Anthony Curcio :Honeyberry
> To: "North American Fruit Explorers" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID:
>       <LFEEKLPKCOGOFGLLIFAHKEIPCKAA.kathmath@charterinternet.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;     charset="us-ascii"
>
>
>
> I've been growing Berry Blue (a tall, climbing variety) and Blue Sky (3-4'
> tall and round) for a few years in southern MN.  The first few years they
> didn't grow at all, but I've been working on getting my ph down from 7.5, so
> it may have had something to do with that.  This past year they grew enough
> for me to be encouraged about their prospects.  I have also heard they are a
> bit slow to establish.  Taste does vary.  Berry Blue was just OK.  Blue Sky
> was sweeter and I really liked it.  They are not at all astringent or mealy.
> My husband won't eat them because they are too tart, but he doesn't like
> currants either, which I think they taste sort of like.  You do need to wait
> until they turn from light blue to dark purple.  In fact, because of their
> pellet-like shape, Scott asked me if I was sure they hadn't come from the
> back-end of an animal!  They do suffer from leaf diseases late in the summer
> here, especially if it's very humid.  I'm going to keep them for at least a
> few more years.  If they continue to grow and are at all productive, I'd be
> very pleased because I really like getting fruit so early in the season.l
>
> Kathryn Mathews
>
> I've been thinking about buying honeyberries also.  Look at Burnt
> Ridge Nursery  They have four types of honeyberries and their prices
> are more reasonable.  Research on internet shows most people thought
> honeyberries are tiny and have a bland flavor.  Some people say they
> are great for jam.  I never ate any honeyberries so I don't have an
> opinion.   I'm wondering if honeyberry grows best in acold climate.
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 06:51:13 -0500
> From: "Harrick, Barbara" <b.harrick@ilslaunch.com>
> Subject: [NAFEX] Rootstocks
> To: <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID:
>       <104BC7B1D4AE8E4A9F0B85850CEA1D1502969FF4@ils-ex2.ilslaunch.local>
> Content-Type: text/plain;     charset="us-ascii"
>
> Hi all. I got small amounts of rootstocks from Cummins in New York.
>
> http://www.cumminsnursery.com/
>
> Barbara,  zone 6b
>
> Barbara Harrick
> Senior Technical Editor/Writer
> International Launch Services
> 1875 Explorer Street, Suite 700
> Reston, VA 20190
> office (571) 633-7430
> fax (571) 633-7536
>
> DISCLAIMER
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>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 10:53:14 -0500
> From: Hilborn.E@epamail.epa.gov
> Subject: [NAFEX] Grape selection, southeast
> To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID:
>       
> <OFB5A7C579.3B0EC1F4-ON8525753C.00561A8A-8525753C.00573423@epamail.epa.gov>
>       
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> I am finally getting my arbor built. I am planning on trying 2 varieties
> of grapes that I have selected for: low care in my hot, humid climate
> and for fresh eating, cooked fruit items, and maybe preserves if I get
> ambitious.  I plan on only using Surround for insect control (Japanese
> beetles are a perennial problem for me). I am currently favoring Cowart,
> a disease-resistant muscadine, and am considering the seedless Concord.
> I grew up loving the seeded Concord in the northeast, I am wondering how
> the seedless will do.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Betsy Hilborn
> 7a, NC
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 09:54:33 -0600
> From: Anthony Curcio <apc@vassolinc.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAFEX] nafex Digest, Vol 72, Issue 30 ( Creeping
>       question for Scott Hills- Anthony)
> To: "'nafex@lists.ibiblio.org'" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID:
>       <ECAAA3522C92254B875D5D1F55B6CD8E38060FF739@mx01.vassolinc.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Scott,
> Can you tell us what the mix was that you used on the Creeping Charlie ?
> Big problem for us in Nth. Il. also.
> Thank you, Anthony
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
> [mailto:nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of
> nafex-request@lists.ibiblio.org
> Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 12:21 PM
> To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: nafex Digest, Vol 72, Issue 30
>
> Send nafex mailing list submissions to
>       nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>       http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>       nafex-request@lists.ibiblio.org
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> You can reach the person managing the list at
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of nafex digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. What to do with your medlars (Stephen Sadler)
>    2. Steve's Boron question (Alan Haigh)
>    3. boron questions (Ernest Plutko)
>    4. alleopathy of Carya sp. (Alan Haigh)
>    5. Re: boron (S & E Hills)
>    6. Re: boron questions (Steve)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 00:36:27 -0800
> From: "Stephen Sadler" <Docshiva@Docshiva.org>
> Subject: [NAFEX] What to do with your medlars
> To: "'North American Fruit Explorers'" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <000001c973c7$b1e76d70$15b64850$@org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I'm wondering how medlar butter would be.  I find medlar jelly recipes, and
> they require no pectin.
>
>
>
> Or one could make medlar "cheese":
>
>
>
> http://www.historicfood.com/medlar%20cheese%20recipe.htm
>
>
>
>
>
> ~ Stephen
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 11:10:30 -0500
> From: "Alan Haigh" <alandhaigh@gmail.com>
> Subject: [NAFEX] Steve's Boron question
> To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> Message-ID:
>       <1f544d60901110810p56e87ba5v1f32904e8617c2c1@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I don't think you can get a very reliable answer without diagnostics.
> Cornell doesn't charge that much, under $20 for the basic soil analysis and
> about $5 for a supplementary boron test.  Not a lot of discretionary expense
> in context to the amount of time most of us devote to our soil.  If your
> beets are less than robust and healthy looking who knows how much your soil
> is affecting the efficiency of your labor?
>
> You do bring an interesting point about the danger of boron excess.  So many
> comments have been made about this but nothing specifically quantitative
> about the presumably thin line between adequate and excessive.  I have never
> been that precise with my Boron applications- but I do error on the side of
> caution.  This discussion is inspiring me to spend the extra money when I do
> tests on sites I manage even though I have no evidence that Boron has been
> an issue in the orchards I manage.
>
> Factors that affect the success of home orchards tend to be much more
> obvious- things like poor drainage, inadequate sun exposure, soil
> competition from nearby forest trees or weeds and of course predation of
> wildlife.  A decent soil usually has the mineral necessities to produce more
> than adequate harvests for non-commercial production here in the
> southeastern NY area.  A little lime, a little N and some mulch and your
> good to go.  Well, maybe more than a little lime.
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 10:56:18 -0600
> From: "Ernest Plutko" <ernestplutko@wiktel.com>
> Subject: [NAFEX] boron questions
> To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> Message-ID: <380-220091011165618859@wiktel.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Go to this Michigan State University site about boron:
>
>
>      HTTP://web1.msue.msu.edu/imp/modfi/05209709.html
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 12:35:12 -0500
> From: "Alan Haigh" <alandhaigh@gmail.com>
> Subject: [NAFEX] alleopathy of Carya sp.
> To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> Message-ID:
>       <1f544d60901110935k4e9a4ac6g59c55642baf1ca6f@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I manage an orchard which is adjacent to 2 very old northern hardy pecans.
> The soil is shallow and at the orchards closest proximity to these pecans
> there are a group of peach trees which have failed to grow well at all.  I
> notice that the pecan roots look and smell very similarly to black-walnut
> roots and have come to the conclusion that they may well be the cause of
> this faulty performance.
>
> When I first arrived at this site years ago, I was asked to replace peach
> trees that had died in this spot.  I broke up a considerable amount of soil,
> severing competing roots some distance from the trees and these trees grew
> as vigorously for 2 or 3 years but than began to runt out.
>
> I was unfamiliar with pecan trees so it was a while before I identified them
> (noticed very small pecans at their base).  Once I decided that my problem
> could be alleopathy I took a metal spade with a long handle and long blade
> (King of Spades) and trenched a couple of feet down in about 8' diameter
> circles around each peach tree.  After this the trees became vigorous again
> for a year but runted out later and didn't respond the next time to this
> treatment.  My theory is that the roots of the pecans are now well
> established beneath the depth I am reaching.  To go still deeper is not
> practical.
>
> My question to you out there with more experience with pecans is whether
> you've had similar difficulties growing peaches under them.  Other trees in
> the orchard, even apricots and cherries just as close, have not suffered to
> the same degree (if at all).  Am I even correct that Carya sp. have the same
> alleopathic tendency as Juglans?  My google search seems to indicate that to
> be so but I was unable to find specifics before running out of patience.
>
> I also have had the same problem with brambles on the same general site
> where there is another very large pecan nearby and black pecan roots visible
> where the berries are planted.
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 13:02:48 -0500
> From: "S & E Hills" <ehills7408@wowway.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAFEX] boron
> To: "'North American Fruit Explorers'" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <001601c97416$d0b2c890$0300a8c0@hills2003>
> Content-Type: text/plain;     charset="us-ascii"
>
> I've got a weed here in Michigan that is supposedly highly sensitive to
> boron levels in the soil (creeping charlie, aka ground ivy).  In fact if one
> searches for ways to rid an area of creeping charlie, borax is frequently
> mentioned as a solution (and I can tell you that it does seem to affect the
> weed) but there is the danger of applying too much and killing everything in
> the area (I've wiped out grass as well as creeping charlie in one area, but
> a little compost and the grass returns fine, but the charlie has still
> stayed out of that particular area.
>
> Scott Hills
> Zone 6b Michigan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
> [mailto:nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Steve
> Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 12:54 AM
> To: North American Fruit Explorers
> Subject: Re: [NAFEX] boron
>
>
>
> Ernest Plutko wrote:
>> Boric acid is about 16.5% boron and borax is about 11.3% boron.  I
>> understand boron deficiency is rare and it is easy to poison plants
>> with boron.
>>
>
> So, if most soils have enough boron and it's easy to add too much, making
> the soil toxic, are there areas that naturally have too much boron for most
> plants? Oh, I'm sure that could be the case out west, especially in an
> internal drainage basin situation where there's too much of lots of things.
> What about the eastern half of North America?
> It seems impossible to me that there would be a fine line between an optimal
> amount and a toxic amount. If it were a tiny difference, then I would expect
> big areas with a deficiency and/or big areas with too much.
>
> I've often wondered if my yard could be deficient in boron. (Not so curious
> though that I sent in a soil test.) I live in the northeast, in an area
> where the underlying rock is about all granite. I do live along the lake
> shore and not up the side of a mountain.
>
> I remember something about beets needing boron, and I think someone here
> mentioned beets. I never grew them until the last 2 summers. They seemed to
> do fine so can I trust that I have enough boron? The leaves were kind of
> sickly looking but the beets sized up OK and were tasty (for a beet).
>
> Steve ... in the Adirondacks of northern NY
>
> _______________________________________________
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 13:09:49 -0500
> From: Steve <sdw12986@aol.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAFEX] boron questions
> To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <496A35ED.2080801@aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>
>
> Ernest Plutko wrote:
>> Go to this Michigan State University site about boron:
>>
>>
>>      HTTP://web1.msue.msu.edu/imp/modfi/05209709.html
>
>
> The link doesn't work. I got a "We're sorry but...." page.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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> End of nafex Digest, Vol 72, Issue 32
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