North American Fruit Explorers mailing list at ibiblio

[Anthony Curcio <apc@vassolinc.com>]

Scott,
Can you tell us what the mix was that you used on the Creeping Charlie ?
Big problem for us in Nth. Il. also.
Thank you, Anthony

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Today's Topics:

   1. What to do with your medlars (Stephen Sadler)
   2. Steve's Boron question (Alan Haigh)
   3. boron questions (Ernest Plutko)
   4. alleopathy of Carya sp. (Alan Haigh)
   5. Re: boron (S & E Hills)
   6. Re: boron questions (Steve)


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Message: 1
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 00:36:27 -0800
From: "Stephen Sadler" <Docshiva@Docshiva.org>
Subject: [NAFEX] What to do with your medlars
To: "'North American Fruit Explorers'" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <000001c973c7$b1e76d70$15b64850$@org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I'm wondering how medlar butter would be.  I find medlar jelly recipes, and
they require no pectin.

 

Or one could make medlar "cheese":

 

http://www.historicfood.com/medlar%20cheese%20recipe.htm

 

 

~ Stephen

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Message: 2
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 11:10:30 -0500
From: "Alan Haigh" <alandhaigh@gmail.com>
Subject: [NAFEX] Steve's Boron question
To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID:
        <1f544d60901110810p56e87ba5v1f32904e8617c2c1@mail.gmail.com>
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I don't think you can get a very reliable answer without diagnostics.
Cornell doesn't charge that much, under $20 for the basic soil analysis and
about $5 for a supplementary boron test.  Not a lot of discretionary expense
in context to the amount of time most of us devote to our soil.  If your
beets are less than robust and healthy looking who knows how much your soil
is affecting the efficiency of your labor?

You do bring an interesting point about the danger of boron excess.  So many
comments have been made about this but nothing specifically quantitative
about the presumably thin line between adequate and excessive.  I have never
been that precise with my Boron applications- but I do error on the side of
caution.  This discussion is inspiring me to spend the extra money when I do
tests on sites I manage even though I have no evidence that Boron has been
an issue in the orchards I manage.

Factors that affect the success of home orchards tend to be much more
obvious- things like poor drainage, inadequate sun exposure, soil
competition from nearby forest trees or weeds and of course predation of
wildlife.  A decent soil usually has the mineral necessities to produce more
than adequate harvests for non-commercial production here in the
southeastern NY area.  A little lime, a little N and some mulch and your
good to go.  Well, maybe more than a little lime.
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Message: 3
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 10:56:18 -0600
From: "Ernest Plutko" <ernestplutko@wiktel.com>
Subject: [NAFEX] boron questions
To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <380-220091011165618859@wiktel.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Go to this Michigan State University site about boron:


     HTTP://web1.msue.msu.edu/imp/modfi/05209709.html



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Message: 4
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 12:35:12 -0500
From: "Alan Haigh" <alandhaigh@gmail.com>
Subject: [NAFEX] alleopathy of Carya sp.
To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID:
        <1f544d60901110935k4e9a4ac6g59c55642baf1ca6f@mail.gmail.com>
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I manage an orchard which is adjacent to 2 very old northern hardy pecans.
The soil is shallow and at the orchards closest proximity to these pecans
there are a group of peach trees which have failed to grow well at all.  I
notice that the pecan roots look and smell very similarly to black-walnut
roots and have come to the conclusion that they may well be the cause of
this faulty performance.

When I first arrived at this site years ago, I was asked to replace peach
trees that had died in this spot.  I broke up a considerable amount of soil,
severing competing roots some distance from the trees and these trees grew
as vigorously for 2 or 3 years but than began to runt out.

I was unfamiliar with pecan trees so it was a while before I identified them
(noticed very small pecans at their base).  Once I decided that my problem
could be alleopathy I took a metal spade with a long handle and long blade
(King of Spades) and trenched a couple of feet down in about 8' diameter
circles around each peach tree.  After this the trees became vigorous again
for a year but runted out later and didn't respond the next time to this
treatment.  My theory is that the roots of the pecans are now well
established beneath the depth I am reaching.  To go still deeper is not
practical.

My question to you out there with more experience with pecans is whether
you've had similar difficulties growing peaches under them.  Other trees in
the orchard, even apricots and cherries just as close, have not suffered to
the same degree (if at all).  Am I even correct that Carya sp. have the same
alleopathic tendency as Juglans?  My google search seems to indicate that to
be so but I was unable to find specifics before running out of patience.

I also have had the same problem with brambles on the same general site
where there is another very large pecan nearby and black pecan roots visible
where the berries are planted.
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Message: 5
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 13:02:48 -0500
From: "S & E Hills" <ehills7408@wowway.com>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] boron
To: "'North American Fruit Explorers'" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <001601c97416$d0b2c890$0300a8c0@hills2003>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"

I've got a weed here in Michigan that is supposedly highly sensitive to
boron levels in the soil (creeping charlie, aka ground ivy).  In fact if one
searches for ways to rid an area of creeping charlie, borax is frequently
mentioned as a solution (and I can tell you that it does seem to affect the
weed) but there is the danger of applying too much and killing everything in
the area (I've wiped out grass as well as creeping charlie in one area, but
a little compost and the grass returns fine, but the charlie has still
stayed out of that particular area.

Scott Hills
Zone 6b Michigan 

-----Original Message-----
From: nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Steve
Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 12:54 AM
To: North American Fruit Explorers
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] boron



Ernest Plutko wrote:
> Boric acid is about 16.5% boron and borax is about 11.3% boron.  I 
> understand boron deficiency is rare and it is easy to poison plants 
> with boron.
> 

So, if most soils have enough boron and it's easy to add too much, making
the soil toxic, are there areas that naturally have too much boron for most
plants? Oh, I'm sure that could be the case out west, especially in an
internal drainage basin situation where there's too much of lots of things.
What about the eastern half of North America?
It seems impossible to me that there would be a fine line between an optimal
amount and a toxic amount. If it were a tiny difference, then I would expect
big areas with a deficiency and/or big areas with too much.

I've often wondered if my yard could be deficient in boron. (Not so curious
though that I sent in a soil test.) I live in the northeast, in an area
where the underlying rock is about all granite. I do live along the lake
shore and not up the side of a mountain.

I remember something about beets needing boron, and I think someone here
mentioned beets. I never grew them until the last 2 summers. They seemed to
do fine so can I trust that I have enough boron? The leaves were kind of
sickly looking but the beets sized up OK and were tasty (for a beet).

Steve ... in the Adirondacks of northern NY

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Message: 6
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 13:09:49 -0500
From: Steve <sdw12986@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] boron questions
To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <496A35ED.2080801@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed



Ernest Plutko wrote:
> Go to this Michigan State University site about boron:
> 
> 
>      HTTP://web1.msue.msu.edu/imp/modfi/05209709.html


The link doesn't work. I got a "We're sorry but...." page.


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