North American Fruit Explorers mailing list at ibiblio

["del stubbs" <pinewoodel@hotmail.com>]

  to H. Dessurealt,  thanks for the thorough reply, i didn't realize there 
was a non-edible sambucus, but i'd  like to try the black elderbery seeds. 
Perhaps someone out here in nafex land knows about propagating sambucus from 
seed or where info can be found. This sounds like the same tree i remember 
as a child in northern California frying the florets in pancake batter, yum!
         Our local soils and water district sells a conservation grade of 
V.trilobum for $1.20 ea.  I think to order 50 of them, but one year they 
were very disappointing quality- anyone now of a wholesale source for 
various versions of Viburnam?
        Timbleberry. Any chance you know genus-specie on this plant? I lived 
a 
couple years on the Oregon coast and what the locals called thimbleberry was 
quite different.
        Dewberry, i have found a rare one occasionally here in the understory 
with 
a single berry or two, must be the lack of acid soil that keeps them back.
        Wild blackberries.  Two miles from our place the soil changes from 
clay- to 
sand and jack pines. In the understory there are blueberry, raspberry, and 
what i believe are wild blackberies.  So far the ones i've transplanted to 
our rich garden soil in the sun haven't fared well.  But my memory of wild 
blackberries on the west coast is that they grow uncontrollably on heavy wet 
soil.  This spring i'll try to get a positive I.D on them.
        Domestic Blackberries-  the only one that ive seen advertised as 
possible 
in zone 3 is the severtson farms 'doyle'.  Their fantastic claims of 
productivity, cold tolerance, and the $18 per plant price tag.....well..... 
anyone out there who can vouch for this variety and for its cold tolerance?  
  The other posibility i dredged up off the nafex archive is "triple crown"  
Any zone 3 successes with it?  Who sells it?
        An oregon berry researcher i've been comunicating with says hes heard 
of a 
technique of training the laterals low to the ground so they can be covered 
with snow.  Sounds like a great idea! It relates to a Siberian method i 
remember reading somewhere in an old Pomona on growing apples parrellel to 
the ground for snow cover, another idea i hope to pursue.
        Black raspberries,  I'm delighted to hear they can possibly be grown 
in 
zone 3.  I presume these bear on the second year, whats the variety?
        Autumn Bliss.  I did a test planting of 25 of this primocane bearing 
red 
raspberry.   Delighted with the size, productivity, and flavor, but i'll 
give them one more year before digging them up.  They are supposedly the 
earliest bearing of the 'fall type', but in two mild falls we've lost 3/4 of 
the crop to normal mid september frosts.
thanks again!     and happy holidays to you all    minnesota del, Z2b


>From: "H. Dessureault" <inter.verbis@atreide.net>
>Reply-To: nafex@egroups.com
>To: <nafex@egroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [nafex] wet soil, highbush cranberry and archive homework
>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 02:42:23 -0500
>
>Donna,
>In the area where I live (zone 3), there are numerous varieties of berries 
>that are black. We have some black raspberry, although they fare better in 
>zone 4 and milder, but they are my favorite for eating fresh. We have 
>timbleberry (a bramble on long thorny branches with big blackberries in the 
>shape of a timble, very tasty, with gritty seeds, therefore ideal for jelly 
>but uninteresting for jams). I was told that timbleberries are to be found 
>in the Appalachians all the way to Virginia. We also have a dewberry, which 
>is a low bramble. The dewberries have seeds like raspberries and can be 
>made into fantastic freezer jam. Rich in taste and colour. Dewberries are 
>picked at the end of August and some years, with enough rainfall, they are 
>plentiful. In places, the dewberries are part of the ground cover along 
>with moss. All of the above are to be found in sandy somewhat acidic soils, 
>in the wild. That black raspberry would survive a flood, I am not surprised 
>as they are tough plants, but I don't think they would survived in a 
>continual wet feet situation.
>We also have wild high bush cranberry, and they usually do grow in low 
>lands, with water nearby.
>Another plant that prefers wet conditions is elderberry. Elderberry is a 
>very beautiful big bush with long leaves reminescent of walnuts and hickory 
>in the way the leaves are placed along the stem.
>We have two types : 1) Red berried Elder, Sambucus pubens, which grow in 
>rocky places , blooms in april-may and has red berries in july which are 
>edible only if you are a bird (i.e. the berries contain cyanide). Very 
>pretty though.
>2) Then there is the Black Elder, Sambucus canadensis, which sort of looks 
>the same as the above, but grows in humid places along streams. It blooms 
>june-early july, amazingly late for a short growing season, and produces 
>fruits early september, which do not last long on the bush. The fruits are 
>easy to pick as they are in clusters and the dried flowers are like lace 
>made of star like white florets. The flowers make a very good herbal tea 
>and the berries have many applications. Unlike high bush cranberries, which 
>are not very good but make a passable jelly to accompany meat and for which 
>a taste has to be acquired, elderberries are sweet and quite pleasant. They 
>can be used in muffins, dried, added to wine making ingredients to impart 
>colour, made into jams and jellies, you name it.
>This is one of the perfect candidate for the situation that has been 
>described. It grows fast and self seeds here and there where the conditions 
>are right while not being too invasive. It likes more humidity than high 
>bush cranberry and is definitely more useful and much more handsome.
>It usually seems to prefer shade, but last Fall I picked a few pounds of 
>elderberries from a 10 foot tall elderberry bush which grew so fast that I 
>noticed it for the first time last summer while in bloom and IT was growing 
>in full sun in a depression by a stream, the neighbouring poplars having 
>been chewed down the year before by beavers... But, that is another story.
>
>Hélène Dessureault
>P.S. : I do have some dried elderberries that I could send. When I dried 
>the berries, though, I did not have planting in mind. Also, it is possible 
>that stratification would be necessary for germination.
>
>
>-----Message d'origine-----
>De : Kieran or Donna <redherring@tnaccess.com>
>À : nafex@egroups.com <nafex@egroups.com>
>Date : mardi 19 décembre 2000 22:07
>Objet : Re: [nafex] wet soil, highbush cranberry and archive homework
>
>
>I have to wonder if black raspberries would do.   I remember a wild patch
>that did particularly well the year the Tennessee River flooded and had the
>patch underwater for a few days.  You all go ahead and argue with me if you
>think I'm wrong.  I'd hate to see anyone waste money on raspberries on just
>my say so.  Donna  TN z6
>
>
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