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["Christopher Mauchline" <mauch1@aol.com>]

>The other posibility i dredged up off the nafex archive is "triple 
>crown"  
>Any zone 3 successes with it?  Who sells it?

Since I'm in zone 6 I can't vouch for "triple crown" from a hardiness 
perspective.  In its first year of growth it was "trailing" or 
maybe "semi-trailing" instead of "semi-erect" that it is sold as (I 
was expecting something like "Chester", whose canes tend to grow at a 
45 degree angle).  This might be an advantage to you as the new canes 
would be on the ground and get snow (or mulch) covered.

I believe "Triple Crown" is fairly widely available.  (I know Stark 
Bros. was selling it).

Chris Mauchline
SE PA, zone 6


--- In nafex@egroups.com, "del stubbs" <pinewoodel@h...> wrote:
>   to H. Dessurealt,  thanks for the thorough reply, i didn't 
realize there 
> was a non-edible sambucus, but i'd  like to try the black elderbery 
seeds. 
> Perhaps someone out here in nafex land knows about propagating 
sambucus from 
> seed or where info can be found. This sounds like the same tree i 
remember 
> as a child in northern California frying the florets in pancake 
batter, yum!
>        Our local soils and water district sells a conservation 
grade of 
> V.trilobum for $1.20 ea.  I think to order 50 of them, but one year 
they 
> were very disappointing quality- anyone now of a wholesale source 
for 
> various versions of Viburnam?
>       Timbleberry. Any chance you know genus-specie on this plant? 
I lived a 
> couple years on the Oregon coast and what the locals called 
thimbleberry was 
> quite different.
>       Dewberry, i have found a rare one occasionally here in the 
understory with 
> a single berry or two, must be the lack of acid soil that keeps 
them back.
>       Wild blackberries.  Two miles from our place the soil changes 
from clay- to 
> sand and jack pines. In the understory there are blueberry, 
raspberry, and 
> what i believe are wild blackberies.  So far the ones i've 
transplanted to 
> our rich garden soil in the sun haven't fared well.  But my memory 
of wild 
> blackberries on the west coast is that they grow uncontrollably on 
heavy wet 
> soil.  This spring i'll try to get a positive I.D on them.
>       Domestic Blackberries-  the only one that ive seen advertised 
as possible 
> in zone 3 is the severtson farms 'doyle'.  Their fantastic claims 
of 
> productivity, cold tolerance, and the $18 per plant price 
tag.....well..... 
> anyone out there who can vouch for this variety and for its cold 
tolerance?  
>   The other posibility i dredged up off the nafex archive 
is "triple crown"  
> Any zone 3 successes with it?  Who sells it?
>       An oregon berry researcher i've been comunicating with says 
hes heard of a 
> technique of training the laterals low to the ground so they can be 
covered 
> with snow.  Sounds like a great idea! It relates to a Siberian 
method i 
> remember reading somewhere in an old Pomona on growing apples 
parrellel to 
> the ground for snow cover, another idea i hope to pursue.
>       Black raspberries,  I'm delighted to hear they can possibly 
be grown in 
> zone 3.  I presume these bear on the second year, whats the variety?
>       Autumn Bliss.  I did a test planting of 25 of this primocane 
bearing red 
> raspberry.   Delighted with the size, productivity, and flavor, but 
i'll 
> give them one more year before digging them up.  They are 
supposedly the 
> earliest bearing of the 'fall type', but in two mild falls we've 
lost 3/4 of 
> the crop to normal mid september frosts.
> thanks again!     and happy holidays to you all    minnesota del, 
Z2b
> 
> 
> >From: "H. Dessureault" <inter.verbis@a...>
> >Reply-To: nafex@egroups.com
> >To: <nafex@egroups.com>
> >Subject: Re: [nafex] wet soil, highbush cranberry and archive 
homework
> >Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 02:42:23 -0500
> >
> >Donna,
> >In the area where I live (zone 3), there are numerous varieties of 
berries 
> >that are black. We have some black raspberry, although they fare 
better in 
> >zone 4 and milder, but they are my favorite for eating fresh. We 
have 
> >timbleberry (a bramble on long thorny branches with big 
blackberries in the 
> >shape of a timble, very tasty, with gritty seeds, therefore ideal 
for jelly 
> >but uninteresting for jams). I was told that timbleberries are to 
be found 
> >in the Appalachians all the way to Virginia. We also have a 
dewberry, which 
> >is a low bramble. The dewberries have seeds like raspberries and 
can be 
> >made into fantastic freezer jam. Rich in taste and colour. 
Dewberries are 
> >picked at the end of August and some years, with enough rainfall, 
they are 
> >plentiful. In places, the dewberries are part of the ground cover 
along 
> >with moss. All of the above are to be found in sandy somewhat 
acidic soils, 
> >in the wild. That black raspberry would survive a flood, I am not 
surprised 
> >as they are tough plants, but I don't think they would survived in 
a 
> >continual wet feet situation.
> >We also have wild high bush cranberry, and they usually do grow in 
low 
> >lands, with water nearby.
> >Another plant that prefers wet conditions is elderberry. 
Elderberry is a 
> >very beautiful big bush with long leaves reminescent of walnuts 
and hickory 
> >in the way the leaves are placed along the stem.
> >We have two types : 1) Red berried Elder, Sambucus pubens, which 
grow in 
> >rocky places , blooms in april-may and has red berries in july 
which are 
> >edible only if you are a bird (i.e. the berries contain cyanide). 
Very 
> >pretty though.
> >2) Then there is the Black Elder, Sambucus canadensis, which sort 
of looks 
> >the same as the above, but grows in humid places along streams. It 
blooms 
> >june-early july, amazingly late for a short growing season, and 
produces 
> >fruits early september, which do not last long on the bush. The 
fruits are 
> >easy to pick as they are in clusters and the dried flowers are 
like lace 
> >made of star like white florets. The flowers make a very good 
herbal tea 
> >and the berries have many applications. Unlike high bush 
cranberries, which 
> >are not very good but make a passable jelly to accompany meat and 
for which 
> >a taste has to be acquired, elderberries are sweet and quite 
pleasant. They 
> >can be used in muffins, dried, added to wine making ingredients to 
impart 
> >colour, made into jams and jellies, you name it.
> >This is one of the perfect candidate for the situation that has 
been 
> >described. It grows fast and self seeds here and there where the 
conditions 
> >are right while not being too invasive. It likes more humidity 
than high 
> >bush cranberry and is definitely more useful and much more 
handsome.
> >It usually seems to prefer shade, but last Fall I picked a few 
pounds of 
> >elderberries from a 10 foot tall elderberry bush which grew so 
fast that I 
> >noticed it for the first time last summer while in bloom and IT 
was growing 
> >in full sun in a depression by a stream, the neighbouring poplars 
having 
> >been chewed down the year before by beavers... But, that is 
another story.
> >
> >Hélène Dessureault
> >P.S. : I do have some dried elderberries that I could send. When I 
dried 
> >the berries, though, I did not have planting in mind. Also, it is 
possible 
> >that stratification would be necessary for germination.
> >
> >
> >-----Message d'origine-----
> >De : Kieran or Donna <redherring@t...>
> >À : nafex@egroups.com <nafex@egroups.com>
> >Date : mardi 19 décembre 2000 22:07
> >Objet : Re: [nafex] wet soil, highbush cranberry and archive 
homework
> >
> >
> >I have to wonder if black raspberries would do.   I remember a 
wild patch
> >that did particularly well the year the Tennessee River flooded 
and had the
> >patch underwater for a few days.  You all go ahead and argue with 
me if you
> >think I'm wrong.  I'd hate to see anyone waste money on 
raspberries on just
> >my say so.  Donna  TN z6
> >
> >
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