Healthy soil and sustainable growing

["John D'hondt" <dhondt@eircom.net>]

Exactly my idea too.
John

> Again I agree. But I think they're a fair opening to the subject for 
> many of us. We do have over 500 on this list & not all will agree - 
> right?  And I'm on the "hard landing" side of the debate. True, the 
> Middle Ages were as u mention. But there's more to take issue with.
>
> Cultures don't just simply drop back to life in a previous age. People 
> knew how to live where they were with what little they had. Problem is 
> we don't know how to live as they did (or what will happen in a hundred 
> other cultures worldwide that we don't pay attention to). In The Waning 
> of the Middle Ages, Huizinga in 1919 described life in northern Europe. 
> Main thing to me is they thought differently, had a different world 
> view, customs, habits, communications. Less individualism, everyone part 
> of a group of some kind, village, family etc. Anyone wandering or living 
> alone might be thought insane or something. These post-apocalyptic 
> fictions can't begin to deal with the utter foreignness of a lost 
> society. And some predictions now can't begin to convey the trauma, the 
> shock of losing so much of what we think makes us civilized. Someone 
> once said civilization is only a thin veneer over humankind. Imagine 
> universal PTSD on top of everything else.
>
> Personally I believe there may be hundreds of more or less indigenous 
> societies today that we know little of, and some may be better adapted 
> already to harsher climates and lack of modern thinking and living.
>
> ----------
>
> On 3/28/2014 4:25 PM, John D'hondt wrote:
> > It is just with these two links that I have some problem Paul. I fear 
> > they are cruelly over optimistic.
> > We already spoke about how much run in time is needed before you can 
> > realistically expect to be able to live of a piece of land by growing 
> > crops.
> > But further let's just look around us and at the diseased and 
> > medicated masses. I can not imagine that even a small part of those 
> > will be able to do anything useful for themselves except maybe kill 
> > off those of us who can grow food.
> > Also in the Middle ages the earth was still mostly pristine and 
> > fertile and without persistent environmental toxins and radioactive 
> > contamination. And the population was much smaller. And even then 
> > there were famines.
> >
> > I feel quite pessimistic about "going over the cliff". We are not 
> > going to land very softly and just pick ourselves up I'm afraid.
> > I think it likely we are already in freefall and from time to time as 
> > I tumble as in a dream I can see glimpses of sharp rocks at the bottom.
> > John
> >
> > > The World After Industrial Civilization Goes, Usher in the "new" 
> > > economics of local self-sufficiency
> > > http://www.culturechange.org/cms/content/view/785/1/
> > >
> > > We will go kicking and screaming down the path to the new Middle Ages 
> > > as fossil fuels desert us
> > > http://sunweber.blogspot.com/2011/05/new-middle-ages.html
> > >
> > > ----------------
>
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