Healthy soil and sustainable growing

["Tradingpost" <tradingpost@lobo.net>]

Well Mr. Skeptic, since I don't have a PhD I disagree (B.A., post grad, TX 
A&M), and I'm not talking about the grand things I'm going to do but the 
modest things I'm already doing.  Permaculture principles are valid but so 
called certification is - to be charitable - a waste of paper. The problem is 
not money since I've done it on a shoestring and lease my place on one acre 
for $360 mo with good well, and I see thousands of homes in my area with 
plenty of space for growing without buying land to farm. And under optimal 
conditions you can make a lot more than $40,000 from an acre. And there are 
thousands of market growers making money, not less than 5000, and that's 
public knowledge.

>From where I stand the market crowds are anything but yuppies (have 
>something against yuppies?). We've sold at four different markets and 
>they're mostly older adults who remember what real food tastes like, and 
>many on tight budgets. To continue, having just stated people can't make 
>more than $40,000 from an acre selling to markets, you then claim you will 
>clear $80,000 the first year selling to 2 farmers markets, all from a 32x100 
>greenhouse (I haven't seen anybody hyping aquaponics in years). To top that 
>off, you seem to say that homemade wells and generating windmills are not an 
>expense (perhaps capital investments in materials don't count). I suspect 
>your PhD is not in accounting.

You conclude:
>The point of all of this is to make systems like this work all over the
>country the old supply system has to change, be torn down, destroyed. To
>do that will bring the system down. It's one thing to have lofty ideas of
>simplification, but a whole other thing to implement it.

Millions of people can cut grocery and medical costs and supplement their 
income now, where they are, by growing food (I include a large portion of the 
unemployed in that), and home growing is in fact expanding by leaps and 
bounds as are farmers markets. We don't need to tear down anything. I believe 
it was Bucky Fuller who wrote that the way to change a system is to build the 
new within the shell of the old - and make the old irrelevant. And a 
different approach to food production and consumption will implement itself. 
I only try to be one of the many helping others to be ready before they are 
forced to. To imply what I'm actually doing - and promoting - as "lofty 
ideas" that are somehow impractical to implement, is frankly, bullshit.

paul tradingpost@lobo.net


*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 1/13/2011 at 4:09 PM paul@oneseedling.com wrote:

>Yes, I am aware of all of that. My PhD is in Sustainable Agriculture and
>I am a certified teacher of Permaculture. The problem is still money, not
>technique. Land is still $5-10,000 an acre.
>One can make $40,000 + an acre selling vegetables, more than that and you
>have to jump into selling to chain grocery stores like HEB which puts you
>into the commercial market with minimum quotas etc.
>Want to live on the land and raise a family. Oops, back in the old debt
>game.
>My point is that although it can be done there are probably less than 5000
>families in the US doing it. Maybe that many more that are capable of it.
>Farmers markets, while a great outlet for the small gardner account for
>less than 1% of the market and mostly a yuppie outdoor shopping mart.
>Now having said all that we will be growing vegetables in a 32x100
>greenhouse using aquaponics and expect to clear $80,000 the first year
>selling to 2 farmers markets. The difference is I am 63 years old, land is
>paid for and I traded for the greenhouse. I drilled my own wells, built my
>own water pumping windmills, wind generators etc.  So no expenses.
>The point of all of this is to make systems like this work all over the
>country the old supply system has to change, be torn down, destroyed. To
>do that will bring the system down. It's one thing to have lofty ideas of
>simplification, but a whole other thing to implement it.
>Like Pogo said. " I have seen the enemy and he is us"
>Paul the Skeptici
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
>On Jan 13, 2011, at 2:22 PM, "Tradingpost" <tradingpost@lobo.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> Well, skeptic, you've hit on the matter that happens to be my pet
>speciality. We know from official statistics that small farmers who do buy
>the machinery and land etc. can hardly make ends meet, so the typical
>family farmer today (what's left of them) has an outside job just to pay
>bills and keep the farm. I've seen a figure of a couple million just to
>get started in farming. And the big corporate farms get subsidies, price
>supports, and crop insurance to sell to the middlemen who set the prices.
>>
>> And the question is where does that leave us. It helps to clearly see
>that box we have to think outside of, and fortunately you do. So don't
>grow wheat to harvest by hand; don't compete with big agribusiness on
>their cheap, poisoned, subsidized commodities; it's a rigged game and the
>house always wins.
>>
>> Grow intensive on small areas at low cost and bypass the middleman by
>selling retail at full price. I do this, no tiller, no help, upscale
>markets for retail prices. You probably can't make a high income this way
>without being in a great year-round climate with lots of upscale customers
>close by and plenty of free family labor. But it is a way millions can
>supplement their income by just growing on the property they already have
>or by working with those nearby who do have room to grow.
>>
>> Intensive isn't original with me, nor other growing methods. The key to
>it is permanent beds and aisles in a limited space. Beds not compacted by
>feet or machines don't need tilling, and don't need to be raised or framed
>if conditions are right. And organic amendments, irrigation, weeding, and
>mulching is cut in half at least - literally - compared to inefficient
>tractor rows. And it's called intensive because you can get a lot more
>production in a given garden area, with equidistant planting (instead of
>4" between seeds and 18" between rows - makes no sense at all). Like at
>least 2-300 carrots in one 3'x8' bed without crowding. Do the math. You
>also focus on space-saving high value varieties intead of space hogs like
>pumpkins or grains. You use season extension techniques like homemade
>tunnels, greenhouses, cold frames, or row covers. You adapt to your
>climate and beat others to market with early protected starts from seed to
>transplant. I have no experience with brambles
> or
>>  orchards or value added products, so I'm not sure how that works in
>this context. There's much more information out there from many sources.
>>
>> paul tradingpost@lobo.net
>>
>> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>>
>> On 1/13/2011 at 12:40 PM paul@oneseedling.com wrote:
>>
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