Healthy soil and sustainable growing

["art corbit" <art_c@cox.net>]

Marty,

I think you are absolutely correct. It goes a lot deeper than ownership of a
piece of land. Deep down I believe the fact that the Earth is actually our
mother. She cares for us and supplies everything we need. I think this is in
the back of most peoples mind even if they don't realize it. I was raised on
a farm and I have and always will have a special place in my heart for this
poor old earth. Maybe it is because I am part Native American but I feel a
special attraction between Mother Earth and myself. If we care for the earth
and take care of her she will always take care of us.

Art in Arkansas


----- Original Message -----
From: "Marty Kraft" <martyk@allspecies.org>
To: "Healthy soil and sustainable growing"
<livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 12:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] with ownership comes responsibility/
communeway of living


> Paul
>
> I think it's something far deeper than ownership that makes you care. I
> believe that you care about the earth and places and things far beyond
> what you personally own. I'm not sure that I can put into words exactly
> what it is that people care about that makes then good stewards of
> land. Maybe it's that we feel like that we're a part of something
> instead of being a separate individual. Peoples who believe that they
> belong to the land and have no concept of ownership are very capable
> for caring for the land, some for seven generations into the future.
>
> Marty Kraft
> On Jul 18, 2006, at 10:23 AM, TradingPostPaul wrote:
>
> >
> > And I respect your lifetime of experience and knowledge. I didn't make
> > it
> > clear enough that intentional communities are fine by me, people can
> > make
> > any living arrangements that suit them. What I took issue with was the
> > idea
> > of the hippie commune, all things in common, nobody responsible - an
> > untenable lifestyle because only a handful survived at all.
> > Specifically
> > their claims they were the wave of the future, the only right way to
> > live.
> > Like, food grows itself without work.
> >
> > Understand I'm not sneering at ICs with 3 or 4 members; how others
> > choose
> > to live isn't my business. What they call a family isn't for me to say.
> > But that list is calling everybody that lives with someone else
> > they're not
> > related to an intentional community, from college dorm arrangements to
> > gated developments. They watered it down so much it's completely
> > meaningless. What's the point then? That could include millions, most
> > with
> > nothing to do with living on the land.
> >
> > But my view is, ownership of land and natural family is the best
> > arrangement to encourage  stewardship of the land. Others can disagree,
> > obviously. Joel Salatin said the definition of a successful farm is one
> > that your children will want passed on to them. He's well known as a
> > very
> > successful 5th generation farmer on the same land. Family ownership of
> > land
> > has been traditional worldwide for ages and it's not really financial
> > or
> > corporate capitalism as we see it today. Extended families on their own
> > land predates modern capitalism by millennia. It's natural.
> >
> > It's my position that only with ownership comes responsibility. It's no
> > guarantee of sustainable farming or success. But an artificial family
> > owning agricultural land in common is a prescription for problems
> > because
> > they can (and do) come and go at will. They have no stake in the
> > future of
> > it, little incentive to improve the land. They may not even be around
> > next
> > growing season. Agricultural ICs without natural family ownership
> > simply
> > don't function to honor and preserve the land for future generations.
> > That's what I see.
> >
> > I'm with Joel Salatin on this one.
> > http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2006/05/no_bar_code.html?
> > welcome=tru
> > e
> >
> > paul, tradingpost@riseup.net
> > ---------------
> > The care of the Earth is our most ancient and most worthy, and after
> > all
> > our most pleasing responsibility. To cherish what remains of it and to
> > foster its renewal is our only hope.
> >    - Wendell Berry
> > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
> >
> > On 7/18/2006 at 8:11 AM Uriel wrote:
> >
> >> Paul,
> >> I have enormous respect for the job you do with this list in expanding
> >> all our knowledge of living on the land in an intelligent and
> >> productive
> >> way. But I must question how well you understand the community
> >> movement.
> >> Having been involved with community for 35 years I've seen a lot and
> >> think I've gained some understanding of why communities seem to have
> >> had
> >> limited success. The biggest single handicap that I've observed (and
> >> my
> >> own prejudice shows here, I'm sure) is that in order to live in
> >> community you have to be able to relinquish many of the concepts of
> >> ownership and control that are basic to capitalist philosophy. I do
> >> believe that we are seeing the beginning of the demise of
> >> international
> >> corporate capitalism and that its collapse will result in many
> >> changes,
> >> eventually, in how the survivors view those concepts.
> >>
> >> BTW, you sneer at communities that only have 3 or 4 members. Do you
> >> sneer at families that have only 2 or 3 children as failures to
> >> reproduce more abundantly? We in community have the luxury of choosing
> >> our families and it's an ongoing process that can lead to immensely
> >> rewarding experiences and relationships. I would not for anything
> >> trade
> >> it for the confining environment of the nuclear family that has
> >> devolved
> >> from the traditional extended family tribal grouping. It is that sense
> >> of the tribe that many of us are searching to reproduce as best we
> >> can.
> >>
> >> Uriel / SW Missouri
> >>
> >> TradingPostPaul wrote:
> >>> Doing more checking to see if there are agricultural ICs I missed in
> >>> the
> >>> past. Going through the "A"s, I find  Alpha Farm at Deadwood, Oregon,
> > and
> >>> it looks promising. Been around since 1970. Then I scroll down and
> >>> see
> >> they
> >>> have a grand total of 4 adults.
> >
> >
> >
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> >
>
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