Internetworkers: http://www.ibiblio.org/internetworkers/

[Ian Meyer <ianmeyer AT gmail.com>]

>From your website: 

October 17, 2003
John Kerry votes against funds for our troops in Iraq

how about, he voted first to send the $87b when it had a source, and
voted against it just adding onto the defecit.

And here I thought it was only republicans who were fiscally
responsible and the democrats who loved to drive up the defecit.

That notwithstanding, I think Kerry could have done better, but it was
overshadowed by the pauses, ums, ahs, and freak-outs over rebuttals
that the President pulled that made him look squirrely, nervous and
generally un-presidential. As bad as the messages may be, the debate
is all about looks and Kerry looked better.a

~ian


On Fri, 1 Oct 2004 14:21:18 -0400, Tony Spencer <tony AT tonyspencer.com> wrote:
> That is very clear to you?  Last night he first said Iraq was a mistake, and
> very shortly thereafter said Iraq wasn't a mistake.  How is that clear?
> 
> Republicans don't have to say anything about flip flop.  Kerry's words speak
> for themself.
> 
> http://john-kerry.tonyspencer.com/iraq-flip-flop.htm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: internetworkers-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > [mailto:internetworkers-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf
> > Of Evan Zimmerman
> > Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 2:08 PM
> > To: Internetworkers: http://www.ibiblio.org/internetworkers/
> > Subject: Re: [internetworkers] immediate reactions
> >
> > :-)
> >
> > That stuff'll fly with people who don't follow this stuff, but give me
> > a break -- the flip flop thing is a charade. Every replublican
> > campaign for years has run that attack because it's so hard to fight.
> > But it's truly disingenuous and a distraction from discussion.
> >
> > Kerry's message was very clear. The difference between last night and
> > recent months is, he finally boiled it down to a sentence instead of a
> > speech.
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 1 Oct 2004 09:38:14 -0400, Tony Spencer
> > <tony AT tonyspencer.com> wrote:
> > > Substance?
> > >
> > > Kerry couldn't even stick to one position on Iraq during the debate!
> > >
> > > KERRY: "...But the president made a mistake in invading Iraq."
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .
> > > LEHRER: "Are Americans now dying in Iraq for a mistake? "
> > >
> > > KERRY: "No, and they don't have to, providing we have the
> > leadership that we
> > > put -- that I'm offering."
> > >
> > > Phew.  Glad he cleared up the confusion.
> > >
> > > I agree with you on style.  Bush didn't look good but Kerry
> > lacked a clear
> > > message.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: internetworkers-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > > > [mailto:internetworkers-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf
> > > > Of Sasha Akhavi
> > > > Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 1:00 AM
> > > > To: Ian Meyer; Internetworkers:
> > > > http://www.ibiblio.org/internetworkers/
> > > > Subject: Re: [internetworkers] immediate reactions
> > > >
> > > > It wasn't style that tripped Bush up tonight; it was
> > substance.  This
> > > > was the most issues-focused debate I have seen in a presidential
> > > > election - no outstanding quips, no distracting jabs,
> > just 90 minutes
> > > > of Jim Lehrer and John Kerry confronting George Bush about his
> > > > policies in Iraq, and George Bush faltering in response.
> > > >
> > > > 3) big things came out of this debate for me: 1) Kerry seemed more
> > > > presidential - more mature, more resolute, more
> > intelligent and less
> > > > whiny - than the President and had the opportunity to recast the
> > > > "flip-flopping" characterization Bush has tried to level
> > at him; 2)
> > > > Bush was shown up as valuing certainty above rectitude,
> > in the face
> > > > of all evidence;  3) Kerry reestablished his credentials as a
> > > > military leader, and a more circumspect one than the President has
> > > > been.  I'm as biased as they come too, but his respect
> > for the people
> > > > doing the fighting, and his pledge that their endagerment would be
> > > > his last resort, was inescapably more sincere than Bush's.
> > > >
> > > > ... and after sending out this highly partisan message,
> > I'm going to
> > > > be gone for the weekend, so I won't be around to continue the
> > > > discussion til Monday.  See y'all then -SA
> > > >
> > > > >/me has no cable. :'(
> > > > >
> > > > >but i have to say, damn, i thought bush was supposed to
> > be a great
> > > > >debater (resisting saying hes a master debater) and had
> > never lost a
> > > > >debate in his life, but he messed that all up.
> > > > >
> > > > >Now, I'm about as biased as they come, but I'm not above calling
> > > > >someone out of he messed things up. There were a few times when I
> > > > >wanted to reach out and smack Kerry up side the head,
> > but I was too
> > > > >distracted by Bush blinking all the time...or pausing in....the
> > > > >middle........
> > > > >
> > > > >...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >of a sentence to compose himself...
> > > > >
> > > > >my $0.02
> > > > >ian
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 00:09:20 -0400, Thomas
> > > > <thomas AT tbeckett.com> wrote:
> > > > >>  -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > > > >>  Hash: SHA1
> > > > >>
> > > > >>  So, how was the Daily Show tonight?
> > > > >>
> > > > >>  TaB
> > > > >>  -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > > > >>  Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (MingW32)
> > > > >>  Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > iD8DBQFBXNhwEMCfelopa1cRAqpRAKCX98YQ16qF3+VQi6MukDEsnmpuwwCfa577
> > > > >>  tXLfe24cIbVYpY6SEfnvsFI=
> > > > >>  =qLEV
> > > > >>  -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > > > >>  ---
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> > --
> >
> > Evan
> >
> > _________________________
> > evan.zimmerman AT gmail.com
> > http://evanz.org
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