Homestead mailing list

[Branden C <aktisskeelo AT hotmail.com>]

Hello, Recent Lurker here.
 
It's not so much that physicians "give" insurance companies discounts.  
The Insurance Companies set fee schedules, ie. what they will pay for a given 
service, for your particular geographic area.  The physician accepts that 
amount or he/she will not accept that insurance.
 
But it gets more complicated.  Medicaid/Medicare does the same.  However they 
determine among other things what % they will pay for a given service.  That 
is why the cash fee for service is greater.
 
One other thing.  Not all Medicaid/Medicare Fraud is "fraud".  If someone 
sees a physician, and he comps that patient... say pay what you can... or 
dont worry about paying for this visit.  And Medicaid does a review of that 
physician's office payments... they can literally say fraud has been done to 
the goverment because they are paying a certain % of a cash payment, but here 
the physician is providing services for free... 
 
Branden> From: homestead-request AT lists.ibiblio.org> Subject: Homestead 
Digest, Vol 45, Issue 15> To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org> Date: Sun, 6 Apr 
2008 20:47:49 -0400> > Send Homestead mailing list submissions to> 
homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide 
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Subject line so it is more specific> than "Re: Contents of Homestead 
digest..."> > > Today's Topics:> > 1. Re: Insurance--a homesteader's 
viewpoint (clhw)> 2. Re: Insurance--a homesteader's viewpoint (Marie 
McHarry)> 3. Re: Insurance--a homesteader's viewpoint (Lynda)> 4. Re: 
Insurance--a homesteader's viewpoint (Clansgian AT wmconnect.com)> 5. Re: 
Insurance--a homesteader's viewpoint (clhw)> 6. Re: Insurance--a 
homesteader's viewpoint (clhw)> 7. Re: Insurance--a homesteader's viewpoint 
(Gene GeRue)> 8. Re: Insurance--a homesteader's viewpoint (Gene GeRue)> 9. 
Re: Insurance--a homesteader's viewpoint (SJC)> 10. Re: Insurance--a 
homesteader's viewpoint (Clansgian AT wmconnect.com)> > > 
----------------------------------------------------------------------> > 
Message: 1> Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 14:16:32 -0400> From: clhw AT infoave.net 
(clhw)> Subject: Re: [Homestead] Insurance--a homesteader's viewpoint> To: 
homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org> Message-ID: 
<v02130501c41ea37f9e3b@[64.53.36.12]>> Content-Type: text/plain; 
charset="us-ascii"> > Insurance is legalized gambling in which the insurance 
policy purchaser> bets the insurance company that he, the purchaser will 
lose. You only win> on health insurance if you get sick and need financial 
help. You only win> on car insurance if you have a wreck or damage done to 
your vehicle. You> only win on life insurance if you die young.> > The 
insurance company bets against the purchaser based on its tables of> 
probability. What is the probability that a 30-year-old will keel over dead> 
of unknown causes? Or that he/she will have a wreck which "totals" their> 
car? Especially since, if the purchaser has a poor driving record, the> rates 
are higher? The insurance company takes into account whether or not> the 
purchaser has taken driver's training, has a B or higher average, is> 
enrolled full-time in high school, etc.> > Insurance is always a losing deal 
for the purchaser unless they fall prey> to whatever they are insuring 
against at an early age and with devastating> results. Insurance has caused a 
large portion of the increase of medical> charges. Part of the squabbling 
over HomeOwners' Association regulations is> caused by insurance.> > Many 
doctors and hospitals give 30 - 50% reduction in charges to people who> carry 
no insurance. Why?> > Just my opinion.> > >What are your thoughts on the 
issue of insurance?> >> 
>*http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/06/magazine/06wwln-safire-t.html?ref=magazine>
 > > > > ------------------------------> > Message: 2> Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 
13:22:16 -0500> From: "Marie McHarry" <mmcharry AT gmail.com>> Subject: Re: 
[Homestead] Insurance--a homesteader's viewpoint> To: 
homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org> Message-ID:> 
<18c9df6e0804061122x13c29266wc493e22614a2d2ba AT mail.gmail.com>> Content-Type: 
text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1> > > Many doctors and hospitals give 30 - 50% 
reduction in charges to people who> > carry no insurance. Why?> >> I don't 
know of a place where that is true. People who don't have> insurance are 
billed at a higher rate -- often substantially higher --> than people who are 
covered by insurance companies that have worked> out payment schedules with 
providers.> > Marie> > > ------------------------------> > Message: 3> Date: 
Sun, 6 Apr 2008 12:25:28 -0800> From: "Lynda" <lurine AT softcom.net>> Subject: 
Re: [Homestead] Insurance--a homesteader's viewpoint> To: 
<homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org>> Message-ID: 
<003601c89824$8cec9a60$fd7b3542@Moon>> Content-Type: text/plain; 
format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";> reply-type=original> > Actually, the 
reverse is true. Non-insurance patients are charged the > *standard* rates. 
Insurance companies negotiate a rate which is lower than > the standard.> > 
Hospitals *rarely* discount for cash and it has to be cash up front. > 
*Some,* again *rare* doctors will discount for cash up front.> > *Sometimes,* 
again, not the rule but rather the exception, you can negotiate > the 
insurance rate on a bill with a hospital but usually only if you pay > within 
a very stort period of time.> > Lynda> ----- Original Message ----- > From: 
"clhw" <clhw AT infoave.net>> > > >snip<> > Many doctors and hospitals give 30 - 
50% reduction in charges to people > > who> > carry no insurance. Why?> >> > 
Just my opinion.> >> >>What are your thoughts on the issue of insurance?> >>> 
>>*http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/06/magazine/06wwln-safire-t.html?ref=magazine>
 >> >> > _______________________________________________> > Homestead list 
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> > > > ------------------------------> > Message: 4> Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 
16:22:18 EDT> From: Clansgian AT wmconnect.com> Subject: Re: [Homestead] 
Insurance--a homesteader's viewpoint> To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org> 
Message-ID: <c63.2c6f8cc8.352a8afa AT wmconnect.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; 
charset="US-ASCII"> > We carry liablity on our vehicles. The insurance 
company would pay us > nothing for the loss of our bottom-feeder vehicles 
anyway. But it takes the most > innocent tap on someone's car for them to 
claim all and sundry dire injuries. > So my conclustion has been that if gas 
and tags and such are the bare > essentials for driving, so is insurance. If 
ever the insurance becomes so odious that > I don't want it, I will stop 
driving.> > With the world oil situation, that could soon be a moot point 
anyway.> > Likewise house insurance, which also covers the farm, is pretty 
cheap here. > What this and the auto insurance means is that if I am bothered 
by someone's > claims, the insurance company can have the headaches.> > All 
my business is conducted through an LLC so any liability from that > quarter 
would garner the claimant and their sheisters nothing, as the well know and > 
so it is no temptation.> > Also Tennessee is one of the states in which all 
property is held by married > people as "tenancy by entirety". This means 
each spouse fully and separately > owns all communal property. If someone 
obtains judgement against me, Denise > still owns the all our property in its 
entirety and so it cannot be attached. > And vice versa. It behooves one to 
know if this is the case in your state. > Here is is automatic and in some 
states you can opt for it.> > As far as health insurance goes, the poeple who 
have expressed that cash > payers are charged MORE are entirely correct. 
That's to make a case that the > insurance companies are getting a bogus deep 
discount. When dental insurance was > uncommon, a filling cost $16. Just as 
soon as insurance covered it, the > average around here shot up to $80.> > 
The best insurance is live as well as you can, and that includes taking a > 
long hard look at the 'malady du jour' that everyone claims at any given 
time. > Spend the attention funds on good food, good work, and a good 
attitude. The > odds that insurance backed medicine is going to correct 
something are far worse > than the odds that you could prevent it to begin 
with.> > At our ages health insurance would cost four times it otherwise 
takes us to > live. Why mirthlessly enslave oneself to such a system? Better, 
says I, to > live well while one can than to live half-assed because of a 
fear of something > going wrong.> > James </HTML>> > > 
------------------------------> > Message: 5> Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 16:56:54 
-0400> From: clhw AT infoave.net (clhw)> Subject: Re: [Homestead] Insurance--a 
homesteader's viewpoint> To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org> Message-ID: 
<v02130504c41ee10917c1@[64.53.36.12]>> Content-Type: text/plain; 
charset="us-ascii"> > Well I can name you 2 hospitals and 3 doctor's offices 
where it is true> right now. I did not know this was the case until just 
recently.> > >> Many doctors and hospitals give 30 - 50% reduction in charges 
to people who> >> carry no insurance. Why?> >>> >I don't know of a place 
where that is true. People who don't have> >insurance are billed at a higher 
rate -- often substantially higher --> >than people who are covered by 
insurance companies that have worked> >out payment schedules with providers.> 
>> >Marie> > > > > ------------------------------> > Message: 6> Date: Sun, 6 
Apr 2008 16:56:56 -0400> From: clhw AT infoave.net (clhw)> Subject: Re: 
[Homestead] Insurance--a homesteader's viewpoint> To: 
homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org> Message-ID: 
<v02130505c41ee147263f@[64.53.36.12]>> Content-Type: text/plain; 
charset="us-ascii"> > The local hospital to my county has instituted a 30% 
discount for anyone> who pays the entire bill of a procedure, like a lab 
blood work, before it> is done. It also discounts the amount which must be 
paid if it is paid> within 30 days.> > All the doctors who are affiliated 
under the hospital system (not all those> who can admit to the hospital) also 
give 20 or 30% discount for bills paid> immediately upon the visit.> > The 
hospital in the next county over, which is a larger regional hospital,> gives 
a 7% discount for all bills paid immediately. Larger percentages are> given 
for people with no insurance, upon negotiation.> > One doctor's office, 
registered with the regional hospital, but not> sporting their name on its 
bills discounts as much as 50% on negotiation.> > It is rare for a hospital 
(or doctor) to see money from an insurance> company in less than 90 days and 
they have to pay someone to do the filing> papers to get it then. So, it's 
like a gas station which has a lower price> for cash payment. Also, they know 
that people who are strapped to pay a> bill may just give up if not allowed 
some more reasonable amount to pay.> > >Actually, the reverse is true. 
Non-insurance patients are charged the> >*standard* rates. Insurance 
companies negotiate a rate which is lower than> >the standard.> >> >Hospitals 
*rarely* discount for cash and it has to be cash up front.> >*Some,* again 
*rare* doctors will discount for cash up front.> >> >*Sometimes,* again, not 
the rule but rather the exception, you can negotiate> >the insurance rate on 
a bill with a hospital but usually only if you pay> >within a very stort 
period of time.> >> >Lynda> > > > > ------------------------------> > 
Message: 7> Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 16:35:50 -0500> From: Gene GeRue 
<genegerue AT ruralize.com>> Subject: Re: [Homestead] Insurance--a homesteader's 
viewpoint> To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org> Message-ID: 
<4AC5EDFF-E278-4E89-AA58-646EF05489B5 AT ruralize.com>> Content-Type: 
text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes> > > On Apr 6, 2008, 
at 3:56 PM, clhw wrote:> > > The local hospital to my county has instituted a 
30% discount for > > anyone> > who pays the entire bill of a procedure, like 
. . . .> > This caused something to come to mind. When I last got new lenses 
for > my glasses a few months ago the optometrist at Lenscrafters said I had 
> a slight infection in one eye. He started to fill out a prescription > for 
medicine to cure it. I don't recall what triggered it, but I > mentioned that 
I carry no health insurance. He immediately tore up the > prescription. He 
said keep calling my receptionist and ask if the > medicine samples have been 
dropped off by the pharma company > salesperson. I did that and within the 
week I had a free sample.> > > ------------------------------> > Message: 8> 
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 16:38:37 -0500> From: Gene GeRue 
<genegerue AT ruralize.com>> Subject: Re: [Homestead] Insurance--a homesteader's 
viewpoint> To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org> Message-ID: 
<B799FCBA-D28B-4D67-9808-347CBBEF9780 AT ruralize.com>> Content-Type: 
text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes> > > On Apr 6, 2008, 
at 3:22 PM, Clansgian AT wmconnect.com wrote:> > > At our ages health insurance 
would cost four times it otherwise > > takes us to> > live. Why mirthlessly 
enslave oneself to such a system? Better, > > says I, to> > live well while 
one can than to live half-assed because of a fear of > > something> > going 
wrong.> > And there it is, my philosophy well expressed. As I have noted, I 
do > not pay for disease insurance; I use the money I might otherwise give > 
to an insurance company to obtain the best quality food I can find. I > eat 
very well. Good beer, too.> > > > ------------------------------> > Message: 
9> Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2008 17:50:41 -0400> From: SJC <indexer AT localnet.com>> 
Subject: Re: [Homestead] Insurance--a homesteader's viewpoint> To: 
homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org> Message-ID: <47F945B1.8020909 AT localnet.com>> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed> > Certainly here 
(Maine)the uninsured pay more. Son injured his hand a > while back and when I 
questioned parts of the surgery bill for repair of > injury, I was told 
outright in many cases that "if you had insurance, it > would only have been" 
X$.> > Since many insurance laws are state-controlled, I'd guess this is one 
of > the things that falls under, but here it's a dismal picture. Not that > 
it drove me to get insurance....it didn't> > I've had more than my share of 
experience with insurers, and as a group, > they are not folks for whom I 
Cherish a Great Admiration. Disgusting > creatures.> > Susan Jane, in Maine> 
> Marie McHarry wrote:> >> Many doctors and hospitals give 30 - 50% reduction 
in charges to people who> >> carry no insurance. Why?> >>> >> > > I don't 
know of a place where that is true. People who don't have> > insurance are 
billed at a higher rate -- often substantially higher --> > than people who 
are covered by insurance companies that have worked> > out payment schedules 
with providers.> >> > Marie> >> >> >> > > > > > 
------------------------------> > Message: 10> Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 20:47:57 
EDT> From: Clansgian AT wmconnect.com> Subject: Re: [Homestead] Insurance--a 
homesteader's viewpoint> To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org> Message-ID: 
<bbe.266a34dc.352ac93d AT wmconnect.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; 
charset="US-ASCII"> > > > > I use the money I might otherwise give > > to an 
insurance company to obtain the best quality food I can find. I > > eat very 
well. Good beer, too.> > > > It would amaze those who have not tried it just 
how much better (healthier) > food one can afford for the price of an 
insurance premium. > > I base this following partially on a conversation with 
a physicial (general). > My suspicion is that most doctors know very well 
that exercise, weight loss, > and above all (or contributing to it all) a 
very healthy diet would correct > 97% of what they treat with chemicals. But 
they know just as well that people > aren't going to do it. It's a choice of 
unpleasantly lecturing about > destructive lifestyle to absolutely no end, or 
give them the pills and be done with > it.> > A short while back I took all 
the children for dental checkups (with no > dental work needed!). The dentist 
knows very well it costs us deep in the purse to > just have proper exams for 
them all and so he adjusts his bill accordingly. > It is still monstrously 
expensive. I accompanied the youngest through the > routine (he had the 
prophylactic sealants for his molars, great invention, that) > and another 
boy about his age was in the next chair with something like eleven > 
cavities.> > The dentist lectured the mother on giving the boy soda and too 
much fruit > juice. Seems children walk around with those pouches and boxes 
and swill their > mouths the fruit juice with hours on end. The mother said 
she'd try to watch > it.> > The dentist squared off toward her and said, 
"Try?? If you don't buy it, he > can't drink it!!"> > But it must be no end 
of frustration. Modren medicine is based, so says I, > on us having thrown in 
the towel on healthy living and just dealing with and > managing what's left. 
</HTML>> > > ------------------------------> > 
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Vol 45, Issue 15> *****************************************
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