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["Lynda" <lurine AT softcom.net>]

Well, you just made the argument for gene research.  There are *now* 3 to 5 
babies a year diagnosed with Tay-Sachs.  Prior to screening there were 
upwards from 60 each year in the U.S. and Canada and who knows how many more 
in other North American countries who, at that time, didn't keep records.

And, o.k., we get it.  You are obsessed with fat, Bill is obsessed with 
California and math classes.  However, all things don't lead to either of 
those obsessions.  In fact, the continual reframing of every single 
conversation to that rant only serves to make people tune out what you are 
saying.

The real problem is with absolutists.  Just like those folks who blame 
everything on genes, some other folks make absolute statements about 
everything else.  Neither they nor you are correct.  It isn't "all in the 
genes" nor is it all "horrible personal choices."

Lynda
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Clansgian AT wmconnect.com>


> >Hmmm, so Sickle Cell, Huntington's, Tay Sacs, hemohilia, etc. are all 
> >caused
> by "horrible personal choices."  That's interesting.
>
> Well, I'd echo what Gene said which is really the heart of the matter:
>
> > Ah, but Bev, which is the best belief pattern to carry one through
> life?
>
> You mention Tay Sachs disease.  The incidence of Tay Sachs disease in 
> North
> America is between three and five babies each ..... YEAR.   North America, 
> not
> just the US.  What is disreputable in this discussion is to point to such
> very, very rare genetic (chromosomal, actually) diseases as Tay Sachs, 
> Marfan's,
> and the like, and say, "See, genetic diseases!  I told you so.     Genes 
> caused
> those maladies and so I bet you it's not because I eat eleven 
> cheeseburgers a
> day, a 55 gallon drum of soda, that I'm obese.  No sir, it's the genes. 
> I'm
> not out of breath and weak before my time because I smoke, it's the genes.
> Nothing I could do about it.  Yes, fat lardass caughing out my lungs that 
> I am,
> it's all genetic and so it's useless to think I could alter that with
> lifestyle changes.   And the bastard I married that ruined my life, not my 
> fault
> either, it was genetic.  And th stupid business ventures, you guessed it, 
> genetic."
>
> > A young family moves to their homestead in the Appalachians and begins
> > to raise their children in a healthy manner by all accounts.  They don't
> > smoke or drink or do anything even remotely considered self destructive.
> > When the kid, who has always lived on the homestead, gets to be, say 25
> > or so, he suddenly is diagnosed with terminal lung cancer.
>
> And since that COULD happen, we then say, "See, there's the possibility 
> that
> it COULD happen, so let's all light up, we know it's really all chance and
> genetics anyway."
>
> Bev, there used to be a very effective PS add run here in Tennessee.  It
> started with two bodies wrapped in sheets by the side of the road as if 
> there had
> just been an accident.  The narrator says, "These people died last year on
> Tennessee's highway.  They were wearing their seat belts."  Then the 
> camera
> panned out to show the highway, median, surrounding hills all covered with 
> shrouded
> bodies.  And the narrator says, "And these 2,300 people also died on
> Tennessee's highways last year and they WEREN't wearing their seatbelts."
>
> The same with all this blather about genetic diseases.  I can make you a
> logical argument that if you AREN't wearing your seatbelt and the car 
> catches on
> fire, you could get out quicker.  Or tell you of people I've known who 
> were in
> crashes without a seatbelt and survived.  But the stats  staggeringly
> overwhelmingly show that you odds (thats ODDs) of dying in an auto crash 
> are greatly,
> greatly reduced by wearing seatbelts (shoulder harness now of days).
>
> It isn't, as you've suggested, a 60% share that we are in control of and 
> the
> rest is chance and genetics, it's closer to 99.9%.  The 40% or more is 
> people
> who don't want to take responsibility for their choices and blame fate,
> genetics, luck, for the mess they make for themselves.  Once you start on 
> that path,
> it gets easier and easier to follow.
>
> > We're not talking science here, Bev. We're into theology and received
> > wisdom.
>
> That's right.  We are looking at a situation where normal skepticism and
> querry are pretty much thown out the window making the stand closer to 
> theology
> than science.  That is, on the part of those who have a religious belief 
> that
> genetics explains every shade and turning of the human condition.
>
> I was in highschool in the late 60's and was in a graduating class of 285.
> Out of those 285 teenagers, maybe twenty or so were somewhat overweight 
> and two
> might have been considered obese ... by the standards of that day.  One 
> was
> type 1 diabetic.  I was driving by that same highschool recently and the 
> number
> of severely overweight children was staggering!   Thinness was in short
> supply.  I read that the incidence of type 2 diabetes in teenagers is 
> getting
> pandemic.
>
> Genetics caused this?   How did the human genetic structure change that 
> much
> in 40 years?   Yet there are those that sound much as you geneticist
> apologists on this list that say, yes, obesity is in the main a genetic 
> disorder.  The
> same with the rise in heart disease, cancer, and such .... and the ages at
> which they are occuring.  It was unheared of half a century ago and is 
> common now
> of days.
>
> Geneticists are trying to say that our choice to overeat, smoke, be under
> stress, cheat on spouses, steal, and murder are all genetically 
> controlled.  Not
> our fault.
>
>
> The medivielists could point to the horizon on a certain date and say, 
> "See
> that group of stars?  When you see those stars on the horizion at dawn, 
> you
> know warm weather isn't far off.  See.  Stars DO predict things, DO 
> determine
> things.  So since I have this clear example, and I have a religious-like 
> faith in
> astrology, stars also determine everything else including whether you will
> get sick or whether your crops will grow or you will have luck gambling."
>
> Genetics is like astrology in that the few things that have been shown to 
> be
> reflected (notice my choice of word) in the genetic makeup are expounded 
> upon
> ad infinitum in a faith based system to include every aspect of human
> condition as if we are all windup toys playing out our preordained genetic 
> destiny
> with nothing we can do about it.
>
> And if you are uncomfortable with that view, hey, don't blame me it's
> genetic.  Tay Sach's disease ... look, that's genetic, so any way I happen 
> to be is
> genetic just like that.
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