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[Clansgian AT wmconnect.com]

>Hmmm, so Sickle Cell, Huntington's, Tay Sacs, hemohilia, etc. are all caused 
by "horrible personal choices."  That's interesting.

Well, I'd echo what Gene said which is really the heart of the matter:

>Ah, but Bev, which is the best belief pattern to carry one through 
life? 

You mention Tay Sachs disease.  The incidence of Tay Sachs disease in North 
America is between three and five babies each ..... YEAR.   North America, 
not 
just the US.  What is disreputable in this discussion is to point to such 
very, very rare genetic (chromosomal, actually) diseases as Tay Sachs, 
Marfan's, 
and the like, and say, "See, genetic diseases!  I told you so.     Genes 
caused 
those maladies and so I bet you it's not because I eat eleven cheeseburgers a 
day, a 55 gallon drum of soda, that I'm obese.  No sir, it's the genes.   I'm 
not out of breath and weak before my time because I smoke, it's the genes.  
Nothing I could do about it.  Yes, fat lardass caughing out my lungs that I 
am, 
it's all genetic and so it's useless to think I could alter that with 
lifestyle changes.   And the bastard I married that ruined my life, not my 
fault 
either, it was genetic.  And th stupid business ventures, you guessed it, 
genetic."

>A young family moves to their homestead in the Appalachians and begins
>to raise their children in a healthy manner by all accounts.  They don't
>smoke or drink or do anything even remotely considered self destructive.
>When the kid, who has always lived on the homestead, gets to be, say 25
>or so, he suddenly is diagnosed with terminal lung cancer.

And since that COULD happen, we then say, "See, there's the possibility that 
it COULD happen, so let's all light up, we know it's really all chance and 
genetics anyway."

Bev, there used to be a very effective PS add run here in Tennessee.  It 
started with two bodies wrapped in sheets by the side of the road as if there 
had 
just been an accident.  The narrator says, "These people died last year on 
Tennessee's highway.  They were wearing their seat belts."  Then the camera 
panned out to show the highway, median, surrounding hills all covered with 
shrouded 
bodies.  And the narrator says, "And these 2,300 people also died on 
Tennessee's highways last year and they WEREN't wearing their seatbelts."

The same with all this blather about genetic diseases.  I can make you a 
logical argument that if you AREN't wearing your seatbelt and the car catches 
on 
fire, you could get out quicker.  Or tell you of people I've known who were 
in 
crashes without a seatbelt and survived.  But the stats  staggeringly 
overwhelmingly show that you odds (thats ODDs) of dying in an auto crash are 
greatly, 
greatly reduced by wearing seatbelts (shoulder harness now of days).

It isn't, as you've suggested, a 60% share that we are in control of and the 
rest is chance and genetics, it's closer to 99.9%.  The 40% or more is people 
who don't want to take responsibility for their choices and blame fate, 
genetics, luck, for the mess they make for themselves.  Once you start on 
that path, 
it gets easier and easier to follow.

> We're not talking science here, Bev. We're into theology and received
> wisdom. 

That's right.  We are looking at a situation where normal skepticism and 
querry are pretty much thown out the window making the stand closer to 
theology 
than science.  That is, on the part of those who have a religious belief that 
genetics explains every shade and turning of the human condition.

I was in highschool in the late 60's and was in a graduating class of 285.  
Out of those 285 teenagers, maybe twenty or so were somewhat overweight and 
two 
might have been considered obese ... by the standards of that day.  One was 
type 1 diabetic.  I was driving by that same highschool recently and the 
number 
of severely overweight children was staggering!   Thinness was in short 
supply.  I read that the incidence of type 2 diabetes in teenagers is getting 
pandemic. 

Genetics caused this?   How did the human genetic structure change that much 
in 40 years?   Yet there are those that sound much as you geneticist 
apologists on this list that say, yes, obesity is in the main a genetic 
disorder.  The 
same with the rise in heart disease, cancer, and such .... and the ages at 
which they are occuring.  It was unheared of half a century ago and is common 
now 
of days.  

Geneticists are trying to say that our choice to overeat, smoke, be under 
stress, cheat on spouses, steal, and murder are all genetically controlled.  
Not 
our fault.  


The medivielists could point to the horizon on a certain date and say, "See 
that group of stars?  When you see those stars on the horizion at dawn, you 
know warm weather isn't far off.  See.  Stars DO predict things, DO determine 
things.  So since I have this clear example, and I have a religious-like 
faith in 
astrology, stars also determine everything else including whether you will 
get sick or whether your crops will grow or you will have luck gambling."

Genetics is like astrology in that the few things that have been shown to be 
reflected (notice my choice of word) in the genetic makeup are expounded upon 
ad infinitum in a faith based system to include every aspect of human 
condition as if we are all windup toys playing out our preordained genetic 
destiny 
with nothing we can do about it.

And if you are uncomfortable with that view, hey, don't blame me it's 
genetic.  Tay Sach's disease ... look, that's genetic, so any way I happen to 
be is 
genetic just like that.