Kata Markon

[JFAlward AT aol.com]

In a message dated 1/29/01 9:59:54 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
l9swain AT wmich.edu writes:


> Subj: [gmark] Re: The Homeric Epics and the Gospel of Mark
> Date: 1/29/01 9:59:54 PM Pacific Standard Time
> From:    l9swain AT wmich.edu (L. J. Swain)
> Reply-to: gmark AT franklin.oit.unc.edu (Kata Markon)
> To:    gmark AT franklin.oit.unc.edu (Kata Markon)
>
>
>
>
>
>
> JFAlward AT aol.com wrote:
>
> > In a message dated 1/28/01 10:05:59 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> > l9swain AT wmich.edu writes:
>
> >
> > All of the other great many differences Swain notes between the Homeric
> > traditional tale and Mark are quite obvious; there are literally hundreds 
> of
> > other significant differences between other Homeric and Markan stories 
> that
> > MacDonald discusses, but these differences are of no real consequence, as 
> far
> > as I'm concerned. What matters is that a great many of the same 
> ingredients,
> > or elements, appear--in this case, eleven--not that they're used in the 
> same
> > way, or in the same order, or even that the messages in the parallels are
> > similar.
>
> Thanks to Dr. MacDonald for his response to which I'll get to in a moment.
> But just to note that the "ingredients" are the same and in the same order
> is rather like saying Steak and Kidney pie is an influence on Sour Cream
> cake: both use flour, eggs, milk, an agent to make the dough rise, a pie
> plate, an oven set at 350 degrees.  But they are very different dishes
> indeed.
>
> The proof is in the pudding, so to speak, and at least these allusions are
> so general, and generalized, as to be unconvincing.  As you note, there
> are hundreds of details difference, including and especially plot
> differences, that it is hard to believe direct influence.  In fact, if we
> took this seriously we would actually have more allusions in Mark to Homer
> than Virgil does in some episodes of the Aeneid that are so obviously
> dependent on Homer.
>
> Regards,
> Larry Swain
> ===============
=
In the case of the parallels noted in "The Beheading of John the Baptist", 
http://sol.sci.uop.edu/~jfalward/john_baptist.html, eleven significant plot 
elements are lifted out of a story that takes Homer only about 300 words to 
tell, and used by Mark to tell a similar tale in about as many words.  If 
someone can find some other tale of comparably short length that is just as 
packed with elements in common with the Markan story, I'll believe all of 
this was just coincidental. 

Regards,

Joe Alward
=============
Joseph F. Alward, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor
Department of Physics
University of the Pacific
Stockton California 
e-mail:  JFAlward AT aol.com