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gmark - Re: The Homeric Epics and the Gospel of Mark

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Subject: Kata Markon

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Chronological Thread  
  • From: JFAlward AT aol.com
  • To: gmark AT franklin.oit.unc.edu
  • Subject: Re: The Homeric Epics and the Gospel of Mark
  • Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 14:16:05 EST

(In my response to Rikk's comments I'm using the protocol that is in use in
other discussion lists:  I put the name of the author above his or her
comments, followed by my name and my response. If this is not acceptable to
list moderator or other list members, I'll be happy to respond in some other
format.  Joe Alward)


Rikk writes:


1. Re the first question, I was just asking for clarification.  You stated
that Mark removed "Homeric vocabulary, characterizations, motifs, and
episodes."  I was wondering what might be left with which one could draw
parallels?  What should I be looking for, besides Homeric vocabulary,
characterizations, motifs, and episodes?  (I'm not sure looking at MacDonald
will help me here since I might be looking for the wrong thing).
========

Joe Alward responds:

You should look for the "ingredients" with which the stories are constructed.
 For example, look at the article, "The Baptist's Head," at

http://sol.sci.uop.edu/~jfalward/john_baptist.html

One finds the following ingredients in the Homeric and Markan stories of a
murder:

1. King and his male relative are part of love triangle.
2. A man is a threat to the affair.
3. Man who is a threat is murdered.
4. Murder occurs during a feast.
5. Attendance by influential persons is mentioned.
6. Victim is beheaded.
7. Mistress plays active role in beheading.
8. Victim's head falls among dishes.
9. A "daughter" plays a role in the beheading.
10. Author has a person specifically referred to as a "daughter" play active
role in violence only once in entire text.
11. Author uses murder to signal danger faced by hero.

What is the likelihood that Mark did not borrow these elements from Homer?  
Where else in literature could all eleven of these be found?
==========
Rikk continues:

2. Re the second question: I think I must have missed your post, but I must
confess that it does matter to me whether the ancients saw the parallels or
not largely because I know I have my own ideological blind spots and it's
nice to have some controls other than those of my limited cultural enclave.
MacDonald is making claims about something that happened in the first
century Graeco-roman milieu.  Surely first century Graeco-roman readers
ought be the first litmus test.  So, I wonder if you could explain what you
mean when you say all things aren't equal?  What specifically renders the
situation imbalanced?

=========
Joe Alward:  

The "imbalance" exists in the predispositions of the church fathers.  I'll
quote from page 170 of MacDonald's book:

"By the first half of the second century, the apostolic names Matthew and
John attached themselves to their respective gospels and thus
institutionalized the view that they were composed by eyewitnesses.  Mark, so
it was thought, recorded the memoirs of the apostle Peter....To this way of
thinking, the very suspicion that an evangelist imitated pagan poetry would
be theological lese-majeste.  Furthermore, Christians who have believed in
Biblical inerrancy have sought to square the text of the gospels with
historical events, rendering nearly irrelevant any quest for literary
antecedents."


I hope this helps.

Regards,


Joe
=====================
Joseph F. Alward, PhD
Department of Physics
University of the Pacific
Stockton California

Home Page:  http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html



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