Kata Markon

["Jeffrey B. Gibson" <jgibson000 AT mailhost.chi.ameritech.net>]

Mike Parsons wrote:

>          Reply to:   RE: [gmark] Re: Temptations
> Thanks for the additional references to peirasmos; that is helpful. i must 
> admit to being puzzled though by your last comment
> you wrote:  while PEIRAW does mean >"attempt" but only when it is in an 
> infinitive form or used with a verbal object >(ala PEIRAZW on occasion in  
> Acts = what Seeseman called "the secular use" of >the term), it most often 
> means "to prove/probe/try a person's faithfulness or >character or 
> integrity" and, so far as my (admittedly) limited examination of the 
> >instances of PEIRAW in context -- and your citations suggest, but NEVER 
> "to entice" >or "to be enticed/seduced" =to tempt/be tempted.
>
> if this is the case (ie. peiraw does not mean "to entice or seduce"), i 
> can't square this with your earlier comment
>
> > And then there is the larger question of whether what you identify in the
> novel
> > as a model of what the terms PEIRASMOS and cognates signified in either
> Greek
> > Biblical or non biblical Hellenistic literature really is a such a model,
> > especially if it is more concerned with the idea  of  "enticement" or
> > "seduction", which I have argued is something quite different from what
> stories
> > designated as  PEIRASMOI entail.
>
> in this post you distinguish between the peirasmoi stories and those uses 
> of cognates that are concerned with "enticement". in the first instance 
> cited, you dismiss the references in the ephesian tale because they do not 
> participate in the semantic range of "to entice, to seduce=to tempt, be 
> tempted"; in the other, you dismiss the novels because they are more 
> concerned with 'enticement'. i am confused. i THOUGHT you were 
> distinguishing between stories (e.g. novels) that use "tempt" language to 
> mean sexual enticement and peirasmos that are "tests" of character.  if so, 
> then the passages from the ephesian tale (and perhaps other novels) become 
> important.
>   (and of course lurking in the back of mind is the use of peiraomai in 
> Hebrews 4:15).  please enlighten me.
> mikeal
>

Now I'm the one who is confused. I thought that all I did was (1) to ask 
whether, as George Young had seem to imply,  there are really any instances 
in the Novels of the use of (EK)PEIAZW and PEIRASMOS and (2) to say that I 
had not taken into consideration the "data" in _An Ephesian Tale_ you thought 
was pertinent because what you took to be instances of PEIRAZW were really 
instances of PEIRAW, a verb whose semantic range I have only cursorily 
investigated.

If you wish to discuss Heb. 4:15, I suggest we do that on Corpus Paulinum.

Yours,

Jeffrey
--
Jeffrey B. Gibson
7423 N. Sheridan Road #2A
Chicago, Illinois 60626
e-mail jgibson000 AT ameritech.net