Kata Markon

["Jeffrey B. Gibson" <jgibson000 AT mailhost.chi.ameritech.net>]

George Young wrote:

> > > A very interesting response, I think. But even assuming a Roman
> provenance
> > > for
> > > GMark, aren't you here confusing the traditions about, and
> interpretative
> > > models
> > > of, PEIRASMOS that AMark would have been steeped in with those with
> which
> > > his
> > > readers were familiar?
>
> Not at all.  The original impetus for my observation was Garrett's book,
> which, in my view, is no doubt a valuable resource, but one that lacks a
> consistent methodology.  Especially insofar as Garrett makes continual
> reference to "Mark's readers," which, I hasten to add, appear to have the
> same encyclopedic expertise as Garrett with respect to Jewish literature.
> This is not a chastisement of Garrett, but rather an academic observation.
> This is, moreover,  why I raised the issue of provenance.  Garrett only
> makes one passing remark to issue of provenance (p. 151), and dismisses it
> with
> a footnote (n.27).  But if Mark's gospel has a Roman provenance, which
> certainly seems to be the case (space prohibits me from elucidating all the
> evidence, but to give one example: If Mark has to translate some of his
> Greek terms with explanations [i.e., KOINOS at 7:3-4 with respect to the
> Jewish distinctions between 'common' and 'holy' articles], what is the
> chance of them understanding a plethora of Aramiac/Greek Jewish traditions
> from the east Med?  Probably none at all), then Garrett has overlooked a
> potential bomb shell.
>

I think you might have to explain that to Paul who, writing earlier than 
AMark,
to Roman Christians could and does assume much much more in this regard.

> > > Also, I'm curious about your assertion that there is a tradition
> regarding
> > > "testing" and/or a use of the "testing motif" in the Greek Novel. Can
> you
> > > tell
> > > me when and where this appears? And can you tell me whether or not, when
> it
> > > appears, what the technical language of "testing" is? That is to say, is
> it
> > > the
> > > noun PEIRASMOS and its verbal cognates PEIRAZW, EKPEIRAZW, etc.,  or
> some
> > > other
> > > terminology?
> ******************
>
> I couldn't help noticing that there are only four (4) references to
> PEIRASMOS in Mk., 1:13; 8:11; 10:2; 12:15.  In the first instance, we have
> no idea of the nature of the test. In the second, there is indeed a test,
> but what the Pharisees' seek  is not all that different that what the
> "spirit" seeks in 1;13!.  In the third instance, it seems to me that it
> would be a mistake to read "test" in a legal way (i.e., Does Jesus have any
> knowledge of laws regarding marriage and remarriage?).  Given the context
> (leaving one woman for another), and given the response of the disciples
> (they don't understand why Jesus forbids divorce), one must ask, What was
> the REAL motive of the Pharisees?   "Test" in this instance seems to go
> beyond legal technicalities to include, perhaps, albeit subtlely, erotic
> enticement.  A legal explanation is unconvincing, under a careful reading.
> And lastly, 12:15. This last instance does seem to support your
> understanding
> of PEIRASMOS.
>

As those on the List who are familiar with my JSNTS 1993 article on the Markan
version of Jesus Wilderness "Temptation" story and my book on the "temptation"
traditions" know, I  have grave doubts that your assertion about the nature of
the wilderness PEIRASMOS not being spelled out in correct.  And it seems to me
that the way you write about the nature of the other "tests" that Jesus is 
said
to experience and/or be subjected to in GMark indicates that you have
misunderstood my understanding of what PEIRAZW and PEIRASMOS mean in GMark --
not an academic test but a proving of faithfulness.

>
> > the terminology does not appear in any of the Hellenistic Greek Novels
> such as
> > Chariton, etc.
> **********************
> What about the language in Mk. 4:17-19, to name but one instance. Does this
> need to be addressed?  The context seems to me to be one of "testing."

What terminology are you speaking of?

Yours,

Jeffrey
--
Jeffrey B. Gibson
7423 N. Sheridan Road #2A
Chicago, Illinois 60626
e-mail jgibson000 AT ameritech.net