FreeTDS Development Group

["Castellano, Nicholas" <Nicholas_Castellano AT acml.com>]

I have plenty of hostility, but most of it is reserved for Bill Gates :-)

I'm just trying to figure out why Sven was asking us to keep cygwin
support...when I thought I had just added it.  I can't imagine why I would
add support for something and then suddenly remove it (as I thought he was
implying somebody might do intentionally).  No hostility was intentionally
directed at Sven, I'm just genuinely confused and perhaps a little disturbed
by his question.

We produce...something...on cygwin.  It does claim at configure time that
it's capable of generating shared objects, and that it will do so.  It does
install some ".dll.a" files in /usr/local/lib and some ".dll" files in
/usr/local/bin [sic].  Whether these bear any relation to real windows DLLs
or not, I don't know.  Some windows-inclined person will need to investigate
further.

I'm not sure whether Cygwin is a good thing.  I do have it installed on my
Windows machine, because as you noted, it can be of practical value.  I just
don't always think being practical is all that important.  Anything that
might encourage someone to treat Windows as if it were a real operating
system is certainly going to be suspect in my eyes (I'd better not follow
this line of thought any further, or I might just remove cygwin support from
FreeTDS just as Sven feared :-)

So, I'm just not sure the dog has any legs at all.  But anything that
improves FreeTDS portability is a good thing, and this experiment certainly
turned up a number of interesting problems.

As an aside, I have never personally asked rms what he thinks about Cygwin,
but I'm willing to stick my neck out and guess that he thinks it's the worst
thing that ever happened to the GNU project.  Not because he doesn't like
Windows in particular, but because he doesn't like *any* proprietary
software.  See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/why-free.html and I'm sure
you'll see my point.

Cheers,
--nick

-----Original Message-----
From: bounce-freetds-145195 AT franklin.oit.unc.edu
[mailto:bounce-freetds-145195 AT franklin.oit.unc.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 1:15 PM
To: TDS Development Group
Subject: [freetds] Re: CygWin


> From: Castellano, Nicholas [mailto:Nicholas_Castellano AT acml.com]
> Sent: October 15, 2002 12:41 PM
> 
> Cygwin is a bletcherous piece of garbage...but that's beside 
> the point as
> far as I'm concerned.  Or, rather, it *is* the point -- I 
> wanted to make
> sure that FreeTDS could work even on a system that's obviously an
> abomination against all of creation.
> 
> But I have no intention of removing support for it, so I'm 
> not sure why you
> are asking us to "keep" support for it, when I just added 
> support for it

Nick, 

Do I detect hostility, or do I misread you?  

I think all Sven was doing was thanking you by saying he thinks your trouble
was worthwhile.  So do I, for basically the reasons you mention.  

For the record, I assume we produce just static libs on cygwin, yes?  

FWIW, I don't understand your opinion about cygwin.  Cygwin gives you part
of a unix-like (or maybe linuxlike) userland over a Win32 kernel.  I've used
it to run an XFree86 server -- not my favorite technology either -- on my NT
box, yielding not a few advantages.  I think the fact that cygwin exists at
all, that it's even possible, is a testament to the GNU project: "Hey, look,
you can sell whatever proprietary kernel you like, and we'll *still* be able
to run our stuff."  Don't you think that's a Good Thing?  

OTOH if you take exception to the implementation and think it's a dog on two
legs, amazing that it walks at all, I guess I'd agree with you.  

Calvin Trillin used to take folks down to Chinatown, where there was a
chicken that played tic-tac-toe.  (Really!)  The chicken defended pretty
well, but occasionally failed to seize advantages, which the person would
sometimes point out.  And Calvin would have to remind them, "Yes, but it's a
chicken!"

Like that.  

--jkl



The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged and
confidential information and is intended only for the use of the person(s)
named above.  If you are not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent
responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, any
review, dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communication is
strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact
the sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the
original message. Please note that for certain accounts we do not accept
orders and/or instructions by e-mail, and for those accounts we will not be
responsible for carrying out such orders and/or instructions. Kindly refrain
from sending orders or instructions by e-mail unless you have confirmed that
we accept such communications for your account. Please also note that to
satisfy regulatory requirements we review the outgoing and incoming e-mail
correspondence of staff members serving certain functions.



---
You are currently subscribed to freetds as: [Nicholas_Castellano AT acml.com]
To unsubscribe, forward this message to
$subst('Email.Unsub')


The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged and
confidential information and is intended only for the use of the person(s)
named above.  If you are not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent
responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, any
review, dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communication is
strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact
the sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the
original message. Please note that for certain accounts we do not accept
orders and/or instructions by e-mail, and for those accounts we will not be
responsible for carrying out such orders and/or instructions. Kindly refrain
from sending orders or instructions by e-mail unless you have confirmed that
we accept such communications for your account. Please also note that to
satisfy regulatory requirements we review the outgoing and incoming e-mail
correspondence of staff members serving certain functions.