Corpus-Paul

["Jeffrey B. Gibson" <jgibson000 AT comcast.net>]

John Brand wrote:

> Date sent:              Thu, 20 Jan 2005 16:42:21 -0600
> From:                   "Jeffrey B. Gibson" <jgibson000 AT comcast.net>
> To:                     Corpus-Paul <corpus-paul AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> > John Brand wrote:
> >
> > > Let's meet on more specific grounds and apart from terminology. I am
> > > open to correction. Why not consider the context of Romans 1-2 and
> > > look at similarities between what he is addressing in these chapters
> > > and what we find in Cicero's "Laws"
> >
> > Admittedly, I only took a quick glance at your list of "similarities".
> > But it seems to me, even if you've assessed correctly what's in Rom
> > 1-2, there's nothing there that has to be drawn from Cicero.  It is
> > all thoroughly Jewish.
>
> John Brand responds:
> We can trace the 'handing over' idea of 1:24, 26, 27 to Jewish
> thought as represented, for example, in Judges. However, we can also
> trace in Greco-Roman thought the idea of turning aside from the Logos
> and the proclivity or depravity that results from this as per point
> #3: 'corrupt habits and foolish opinions … twist and  turn aside our
> feeble minds from their original paths' (Ibid.29 cf.  Heraclietus
> fragments 1,2) so that there is a difference between  those who are
> wise and those who are foolish; or, there is a  difference between
> those have been turned aside by corrupt habits and those who have
> attained moral excellence by using nature as guide (Ibid.30).

But Paul doesn't speak of turning aside from the Logos now,  does he?

> Plato discusses at length the proclivity of the polis due to the
> philosopher-king's letting go of Logos for its own sake and instead
> pursuing philosophy for love of money, or power, or fame. This
> passage is represented verbatim in Cicero's Republic.

Great. And that's about as much as can be said.

> Did Paul see a correspondence between the Jewish idea and the Greco-
> Roman idea and use this to build toward his presentation of the
> gospel? I think we can argue toward that end.

Why does he need to use something from Greco-Roman philosophy when
everything he needs to say what he says in Rom. 1-2 is already in the Wisdom
tradition of Judaism?

> John wrote:
> > > All six of these criteria can be used to substantiate the parallel
> > > between the works of Cicero and the Epistle of Paul to the Romans.
> > > Should this not indicate our allowing the parallels to help us in
> > > our understanding of Romans, the Jew/Gentile issues Paul sought to
> > > address,  and how he sought to bridge the gap between these two
> > > cultures in conflict?
> > >
> >
> > No.  Only if a genetic relationship between the parallels can be
> > established.  Otherwise, it's just an interesting coincidence.
>
> John responds:
> What would a 'genetic' relationship look like? any examples?

Try Philo who openly uses neo-platonic thought as the framework of his
articulation of Judaism.  Try Aquinas who (through Averoese) openly uses
Aristotle.

Jeffrey
--

Jeffrey B. Gibson, D.Phil. (Oxon.)

1500 W. Pratt Blvd. #1
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