Corpus-Paul

["John Brand" <jbrand AT gvsd.mb.ca>]

Date sent:              Thu, 20 Jan 2005 16:42:21 -0600
From:                   "Jeffrey B. Gibson" <jgibson000 AT comcast.net>
To:                     Corpus-Paul <corpus-paul AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> John Brand wrote:
>
> > Let's meet on more specific grounds and apart from terminology. I am
> > open to correction. Why not consider the context of Romans 1-2 and
> > look at similarities between what he is addressing in these chapters
> > and what we find in Cicero's "Laws"
>
> Admittedly, I only took a quick glance at your list of "similarities".
> But it seems to me, even if you've assessed correctly what's in Rom
> 1-2, there's nothing there that has to be drawn from Cicero.  It is
> all thoroughly Jewish.

John Brand responds:
We can trace the 'handing over' idea of 1:24, 26, 27 to Jewish
thought as represented, for example, in Judges. However, we can also
trace in Greco-Roman thought the idea of turning aside from the Logos
and the proclivity or depravity that results from this as per point
#3: 'corrupt habits and foolish opinions … twist and  turn aside our
feeble minds from their original paths' (Ibid.29 cf.  Heraclietus
fragments 1,2) so that there is a difference between  those who are
wise and those who are foolish; or, there is a  difference between
those have been turned aside by corrupt habits and those who have
attained moral excellence by using nature as guide (Ibid.30).

Plato discusses at length the proclivity of the polis due to the
philosopher-king's letting go of Logos for its own sake and instead
pursuing philosophy for love of money, or power, or fame. This
passage is represented verbatim in Cicero's Republic.

Did Paul see a correspondence between the Jewish idea and the Greco-
Roman idea and use this to build toward his presentation of the
gospel? I think we can argue toward that end.

John wrote:
> > All six of these criteria can be used to substantiate the parallel
> > between the works of Cicero and the Epistle of Paul to the Romans.
> > Should this not indicate our allowing the parallels to help us in
> > our understanding of Romans, the Jew/Gentile issues Paul sought to
> > address,  and how he sought to bridge the gap between these two
> > cultures in conflict?
> >
>
> No.  Only if a genetic relationship between the parallels can be
> established.  Otherwise, it's just an interesting coincidence.

John responds:
What would a 'genetic' relationship look like? any examples?

Regards,

John Brand