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Subject: Development of Creative Commons licenses

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  • From: Arne Babenhauserheide <arne_bab AT web.de>
  • To: cc-licenses AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [cc-licenses] Use cases for cc by-sa compatibility with GPL
  • Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 10:44:25 +0100

Am Donnerstag, 12. Januar 2012, 12:00:35 schrieb drew Roberts:
> On Thursday 12 January 2012 01:33:14 Arne Babenhauserheide wrote:
> > Am Donnerstag, 5. Januar 2012, 10:02:47 schrieben Sie:
> > > > Do recipients of non-program works deserve fewer freedoms?
> > >
> > > In my mind, they do not deserve fewer freedoms. But in the mind of
> > > the
> > > folks behind the GPL, they do deserve fewer freedoms. (To use that
> > > terminology.)
> >
> > I think that misses the point of the GPL.
>
> Huh? The FSF thinks it unethical that code be non-Free but don't think the
> same for non-code. (IE. Art and works of opinion, etc. Non-Functional
> works?) I was not speaking to the point of the GPL in that paragraph. I was
> speaking to the beliefs and motivations of the people who control the GPL.

I also already wrote quite a few rants about that, because I think that they
are completely wrong about that.

It does not make the GPL a worse license, though.

Let me take a short guess why i.e. Stallmann does that (this is just
guesswork, don’t interpret too much into it):

He experienced that people coding together keep improving each others code and
that this creates much additional value.

He did not experience that people writing political text together create a
stronger political text.

The coding is a tool for him. The writing is a battle-plan against unfree
programs and he wants that to represent exactly his vision, so it must not be
changed. Also he does not trust others to have a vision as clear as his.

So he tries to reconcile is thinking of free software as the way to go along
with unchangeable political text, and he comes to functional works.
Being thorough, he makes that part of his ethics.

Now, me, on the other hand: I experienced how works of art and text become
stronger when many people work on them. I experienced how being able to edit a
text in Wikipedia together makes that text better over time, and how writing
and revising a poem together improves the poem.

And I realized, that creative works are functional, too. And that they need
the same protections as source code.

Luckily I am no longer alone with that: http://freedomdefined.org/Definition

I think another reason, why the FSF does not fight for free culture is that
they want to win the fight for free software before going into the much harder
battle for free culture.

And I agree with that. Still we can use their tools for free culture, too.

> > They want to ensure that people can actually exercise their freedoms and
> > that noone can take them away.
>
> Fine with me, I *like* the gpl for my code.
>
> > And that the GPLv2 survived for some 15 years before needing changes
> > says a lot about their foresight.
>
> Yes, it does.
>
> > The measures they use for code can create some problems for non-code,
> > though, so having the option to use cc by-sa works in combined works
> > under GPL when adhering to the requirements of the GPL, but keeping cc
> > by-sa as license, so people can decide to use the works under cc by-sa
> > when they don’t need integration with GPL works would be optimal for
> > me.
>
> I don't want my BY-SA works usable under the GPL in such a way that they can
> be pulled out of a GPL program back into the original art/music space and
> be under the gpl and not BY-SA.

So we agree on the wish I wrote in the paragraph you quoted?

Best wishes,
Arne
--
Ein Mann wird auf der Straße mit einem Messer bedroht.
Zwei Polizisten sind sofort da und halten ein Transparent davor.

"Illegale Szene. Niemand darf das sehen."

Der Mann wird ausgeraubt, erstochen und verblutet,
denn die Polizisten haben beide Hände voll zu tun.

Willkommen in Deutschland. Zensur ist schön.
( http://draketo.de/stichwort/zensur )

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