Baslinux mailing list

[Samual Acorn <sam.acorn AT gmail.com>]

On 23/12/05, sindi keesan <keesan AT sdf.lonestar.org> wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Dec 2005, Samual Acorn wrote:
>
> > *gets the WD-40 out*
> >
> > heres a quote from that page;
> > "Using zImage instead of bzImage avoids the problem (since zImage is
> > not loaded high)"
> >
> > renaming the file wont change anything... if its compressed it must be
> > decompressed (loadlin detects the compression... AFAIK the naming of
> > the file is for convenience only) .... and since there is only 640k of
> > low mem that means it gets decompressed into high memory.... and in
> > order to (properly) load anything beyond the 1MB barrier A20 must be
> > turned on...
> >
> > (zimages can only be made as big as ~500k because anything bigger wont
> > fit into low memory... )
>
> Thanks for this explanation.  Does it compile as gzipped vs bzipped?

i think that has to be done manually... but dont quote me on that

>
> I made my latest kernel as a bzImage but it is 484K.  Would it boot faster
> or more reliably as a zimage?

only if its 484K when -uncompressed- ... as long as its compressed it
will load high... no matter how small...


>
> >
> > so why does basic linux suffer? my theory is that the problem is not
> > with loadlin but DOS... DOS 7 will load himem.sys regardless if it is
> > in config.sys or not... IIRC himem.sys turns A20 on.... so with A20
>
> I am using DOS 7.1 standalone (from China).  I just turned on the computer
> and hit F5 to bypass my startrup files.  Typed 'mem /c /p' (I don't know
> where this 'mem' came from)
> Modules using memory below 1Mb:
> MS-DOS  79K conventional memory
> COMMAND 10K conventional memory
> Nothing in upper memory
> FREE  550K  (with various drivers loaded it goes down to about 528K, less
> if I add scsi or usb drivers)
>
> I don't see himem.sys here.

does mem show that all the himem is used or free? if it shows it as
being free himem.sys is loaded....

my gut thinks himem.sys is still being loaded... F5 doesnt do
anything... if himem.sys is on the same drive dos 7 is booting from it
-will- be loaded.... why? scandisk needs it to work with large
drives... so it loads even when you boot safe mode for the pourpose of
checking your drive (probably the reason M$ thinks you booted to safe
mode in the first place.... make sense?)

>
> If I don't hit F5 I actually have MORE free lower memory:

emm386 helps on that one... thats where the 'loadhigh' comes into play...

a tip for DOS 6.22+; put "HIGHSCAN" (sans quotes) behind the emm386
and you will get even -more- low mem free...

>         conventional upper
> system  11K             7K
> himem   1
> emm386  3
> aspi8dos 21     (for scsi zip drive)
> doskey   4
> oakcdrom                35
> command                 7
> mscdex                  23
> Free    600             1
>
> If I had a zImage of 600K would it boot from this system?
>
> Note there is no 'MS-DOS 79K' - it must be taking over the functions of
> himem.sys, 'system' and other things by default.
>
> > already on.. running loadlin just adds to any problems that may be
> > there since it might try to turn it on... or see if its on.... and
> > ceartain methods of checking if its on will turn it off (or viceversa)
> > or cause other hardware... like the trident card... to get messed
> > up...
>
> What exactly does the trident card do wrong?  I did not follow the
> explanation.

the trident cards are getting confused when the 'fast' option of the
A20 gate is used (or misused).... call it a hardware bug (on the
vidcards part)... disable 'fast gate a20 option' in the bios... you
dont need it if you use linux anyway... (you will if you use dos
often)

>
> > a trick; format a floppy and 'sys' dos to it... delete command.com
> > from that floppy and make a config.sys with a single line in it;
> >
> > SHELL="loadlin ........." (where .... is loadlins paramiters)
> >
> > you can of course keep baslin on the harddrive... just change the
> > loadlin parameters to point to where the kernel and root filesystems
> > are.... that way you have a clean DOS that only booted to real
> > mode.... letting loadlin and linux do whatever they wish with A20 and
> > the system memory...  this would of course only be a temorary "see if
> > it fixes the problem" type of thing...
>
> What exactly does this do?

strip dos down to little more than a bootloader for linux... only
thing that is loaded is msdos.sys and io.sys... command.com is not
loaded (its not needed) and DOS (io.sys/msdos.sys) will load loadlin
as what it thinks is an alternate shell (and thus boot linux) rather
than loading the default command.com... this will free up as much
memory as possible and will ensure himem.sys is not loaded...


>
> > btw, bigger kernels also have better support for broken hardware...
> > that is... if they are loaded properly...
>
> Is it possible to rewrite the kernel source code or the Makefile or
> something in order to get a smaller 2.4 kernel that does not work on quite
> as much hardware but fits on a floppy disk better?

of course... but im not a miracle worker so you're on your own on that one...

your best bet when it comes to computers would be to get a 'big'
distro like slackware (the real slackware) and install it (by itself)
on one system then use another system as your wintendo... this is what
i do... booting one os from another is just asking for problems....
just look at windoze 3.1 and 9x/me ;)

definition of wintendo; http://catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/W/Wintendo.html

if the goal of the floppy *nix is for something portable that can be
taken from system to system your best bet would be to use the
LS120/240 or ZIP drives.... or make a live CD whose settings are saved
to floppy... other than that there is no real reason to have a -need-
to cram linux onto a floppy... floppies have a MTBF of 20hrs so you
wouldnt be able to boot very many times anyway...

there are also tricks like formatting a floppy to 1.68MB (this is
possible on 99% of floppy disk controllers... tho windows/dos cannot
create this format it can read it...) so you can cram more
kernel/filesystem on your floppy... might also want to consider
dropping dos and using syslinux for booting linux from floppy...

syslinux here; http://syslinux.zytor.com/


>
> > YMMV
> >
> > On 22/12/05, sindi keesan <keesan AT sdf.lonestar.org> wrote:
> >> It says to avoid a certain hardware problem by using zImage instead of
> >> bzImage.  But if the kernel is over a certain size (around 500K?) you
> >> are not allowed to make a zImage, only a bzImage.  I have been renaming 
> >> my
> >> bzImages to zimage and loadlin works anyway.  Are these gzipped and
> >> bzipped files that loadlin can detect without .gz or .bz2 ?
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, 22 Dec 2005, Samual Acorn wrote:
> >>
> >>> playing around with lowlevel hardware access in windoze 2k (yes i know
> >>> its a no no... but i like playing) i had problems getting a ceartain
> >>> programs timing to work properly... would slow waaaay down till i hit
> >>> a key (any key)... then "0x60" flew out of a rather rusty part of my
> >>> brain... fixed my problem and lead me to search for what all (if
> >>> anything other than the keyboard) is at 0x60 and i came across a
> >>> rather interesting page... might be of some use;
> >>>
> >>> http://www.win.tue.nl/~aeb/linux/kbd/A20.html
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> --sam
> >>> http://mephitus.renamon.org/
> >>> "When you've done something right, no one will be sure you've done
> >>> anything at all." -- Futurama
> >>> --
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> BasLinux mailing list
> >>> BasLinux AT lists.ibiblio.org
> >>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/baslinux
> >>>
> >>
> >> keesan AT sdf.lonestar.org
> >> SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> BasLinux mailing list
> >> BasLinux AT lists.ibiblio.org
> >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/baslinux
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > --sam
> > http://mephitus.renamon.org/
> > "When you've done something right, no one will be sure you've done
> > anything at all." -- Futurama
> > --
> > _______________________________________________
> > BasLinux mailing list
> > BasLinux AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/baslinux
> >
>
> keesan AT sdf.lonestar.org
> SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org
> _______________________________________________
> BasLinux mailing list
> BasLinux AT lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/baslinux
>


--
--sam
http://mephitus.renamon.org/
"When you've done something right, no one will be sure you've done
anything at all." -- Futurama
--