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[b-hebrew] Hitpael 1st pers plural bow down/worship
- From: K Randolph <kwrandolph AT gmail.com>
- To: Dave Washburn <davidlwashburn AT gmail.com>
- Cc: "b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org" <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
- Subject: [b-hebrew] Hitpael 1st pers plural bow down/worship
- Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2013 14:45:14 -0700
Dave:
Thanks for the explanation. It still doesn’t make sense.
On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 6:13 PM, Dave Washburn <davidlwashburn AT gmail.com> wrote:
So the evidence is that because the Ugaritic grammar has this pattern, therefore it must be found in Biblical Hebrew as well? Why should I buy that argument?
What you're seeing, both there and in the Jouon quote, is a grammarian trying desperately to figure out what's going on with this unique word. It used to be taught that it was a hitpa`el of $XH with metathesis of the shin and the tau, and no clue why the waw. But as Ken already mentioned, Ugaritic has shown us that the root is actually XWH and the stem is a hi$tap`el. Once upon a time we had a grid of stems with a hole in the middle:On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 3:26 PM, K Randolph <kwrandolph AT gmail.com> wrote:
Ken:On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 12:06 PM, Ken Penner <kpenner AT stfx.ca> wrote:
Do the following help?
Joüon §59g: "In the light of Ugr. tštḥwy “she prostrates herself,” what used to be considered hitpa̧ʿlẹl, represented almost entirely by the frequent הִשְׁתַּחֲוָה to worship, to prostrate oneself, is most likely a Hištafʿel of √ חוי."
From where does he get this?
Basic Emphatic Causative
Active qal pi`el hip`il
Passive nip`al pu`al hop`al
Reflexive nip`al ? hitpa`el
Thanks to Ugaritic, we now know what goes where the question mark is. And yes, it only survives in this one word in that language, too. That's an accident of preservation,…
There’s a lot in that presentation that’s questionable, at least. That pattern does not fit what I’ve observed in Hebrew. It may fit Ugaritic, but not Hebrew.
… but I don't really think anybody can deny that the word exists.
No question about the existence of the word, it’s one of the more common words used in Tanakh. The question here is the grammar involved, and the root.
I think part of the problem is the insistance that Hebrew have a triliteral root system. But that’s not the case. There are several biliteral roots (into which lexicographers insert “materes lectionis” so they can list them as triliteral) and a few quadriliterals, and this verb acts like a well-behaved quadriliteral with a heh final.
--
Dave Washburn
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Karl W. Randolph.
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[b-hebrew] Hitpael 1st pers plural bow down/worship,
Chris Watts, 06/14/2013
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Hitpael 1st pers plural bow down/worship,
Ken Penner, 06/14/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] Hitpael 1st pers plural bow down/worship, Chris Watts, 06/14/2013
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Re: [b-hebrew] Hitpael 1st pers plural bow down/worship,
K Randolph, 06/14/2013
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Re: [b-hebrew] Hitpael 1st pers plural bow down/worship,
Dave Washburn, 06/14/2013
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[b-hebrew] Hitpael 1st pers plural bow down/worship,
K Randolph, 06/15/2013
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Re: [b-hebrew] Hitpael 1st pers plural bow down/worship,
Belot, 06/15/2013
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[b-hebrew] statements of faith,
Yigal Levin, 06/16/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] statements of faith, Dewayne Dulaney, 06/16/2013
- Message not available
- Re: [b-hebrew] God's name, Yigal Levin, 06/16/2013
- Message not available
- Re: [b-hebrew] God's name, Yigal Levin, 06/17/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] God's name, Sarah Blake LaRose, 06/17/2013
-
[b-hebrew] statements of faith,
Yigal Levin, 06/16/2013
- Message not available
- Message not available
- Message not available
- Re: [b-hebrew] God's name, Yigal Levin, 06/17/2013
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Re: [b-hebrew] Hitpael 1st pers plural bow down/worship,
Belot, 06/15/2013
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[b-hebrew] Hitpael 1st pers plural bow down/worship,
K Randolph, 06/15/2013
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Re: [b-hebrew] Hitpael 1st pers plural bow down/worship,
Dave Washburn, 06/14/2013
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Re: [b-hebrew] Hitpael 1st pers plural bow down/worship,
Ken Penner, 06/14/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] Hitpael 1st pers plural bow down/worship, K Randolph, 06/17/2013
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