Biblical Hebrew Forum

[David Kolinsky <hadeesh AT sbcglobal.net>]

Mike,

Although in modern Hebrew MaVDYL would be present tense (I / He separates), in Biblical Hebrew it is thought more of a verbal noun (separator / one who separates).  I have never really seen B'\aDaey, but there is a B'\aD and an \ADaey.  B'\AD can mean "throughout / all around / for the sake of / through / beyond / in the meantime" etc.  I believe that B'\AD comes from \AD, but I do not know if others here do - my guess is probably not.  \

Nevertheless, as others have stated, to try to get this group to give validity to made up phrases that are Biblical Hebrew-like will not be successful.

Respectfully,
David Kolinsky
Monterey, CA

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From: Mike Burke <michaelgburk AT yahoo.com>
To: David Kolinsky <hadeesh AT sbcglobal.net>; "b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org" <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Mon, May 20, 2013 11:25:50 AM
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] מבדיל בעדי

>>>>I (being one not considered a learned scholar on this site) would translate it "He who separates throughout the nations."<<<<

Thank you.

Now this is where I show my ignorance (but it is also getting at what I'm interested in.)

I can see where you get "separates" and "nations," but where do you get "he" and "throughout"?

Do both ideas come from בעדי ?

 

Michael Gerard Burke

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From: David Kolinsky <hadeesh AT sbcglobal.net>
To: "b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org" <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 2:05 PM
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] מבדיל בעדי

Mike,

I (being one not considered a learned scholar on this site) would translate it "He who separates throughout the nations."

However, that means nothing!  If the use is not attested in any of the source materials that we generally come across, then there is no way for us to know if it would have made any sense to a Biblical Hebrew speaker. 
Perhaps it was perfectly sound Biblical Hebrew. 
Perhaps, it would make sense but feel awkward to them. 
Perhaps it would mean to them something different. 
Perhaps it would mean nothing to them at all.

There is no way to know!

Respectfully,
David Kolinsky
Monterey, CA

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From: Mike Burke <michaelgburk AT yahoo.com>
To: Dave Washburn <davidlwashburn AT gmail.com>; "b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org" <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Mon, May 20, 2013 10:49:02 AM
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] מבדיל בעדי

>>>>An electronic search of Hamlet would either turn up or not turn up the phrase we were looking for, depending on whether he used it there or not. That's what this list is for: dealing with the language of the Hebrew Bible as we have received it, and seeking to understand it.<<<<

If you wanted to understand the language of Shakespeare, there would be no reason to limit yourself to the text of Hamlet "as we have received it," and every reason to look at The King James Bible, Julius Caesar, Henry V, the Merchant of Venice, the Taming of the Shrew, etc.,etc., etc.

I'm interested in how Hebrew words are, were, and can be used (in both ancient and modern Hebrew), and I should think that anyone interested in understanding the language of the Hebrew Bible would be interested extra biblical sources.

K. Randolph said that an electronic search of the text of the Hebrew Bible didn't turn up the phrase I offered, but does that mean בעדי (the word I'm interested in here) couldn't be used in that phrase (or a phrase like it), or that it isn't so used in the Targums, Mishna, or Talmud?

I don't know if it is or isn't, as I didn't do an electronic search of every conceivable Hebrew Text before I asked my question.

I was wondering if בעדי could be used in a particular context, and I offered an example of the kind of context I was thinking of.

If any of you learned scholars came across the sentence " מבדיל בעדי גויים ," how would you translate it?

>>>>I really don't know what it is you're trying to do with these contextless questions, words and phrases<<<<

I put the word in which I'm interested in a context for you.

I'd like to know whether the word could be used in that context, and what it would mean (or are you saying it cannot be used in that context, and the sentence I constructed is meaningless?)

Michael Gerard Burke

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From: Dave Washburn <davidlwashburn AT gmail.com>
To: "b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org" <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 12:53 PM
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] מבדיל בעדי

On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 9:05 AM, Mike Burke <michaelgburk AT yahoo.com> wrote:

Would an electronic search of Hamlet turn up every possible phrase in which every word Shakespeare used in Hamlet could properly be used in Elizabethan English (or which he himself used in his collected works)?

Michael Gerard Burke

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Your question doesn't make sense. We deal in actual text from the Hebrew Bible here, not hypothetical phrases concocted out of someone's head. An electronic search of Hamlet would either turn up or not turn up the phrase we were looking for, depending on whether he used it there or not. That's what this list is for: dealing with the language of the Hebrew Bible as we have received it, and seeking to understand it. I really don't know what it is you're trying to do with these contextless questions, words and phrases.
 

--
Dave Washburn

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