Biblical Hebrew Forum

[B Chan <bh-chan AT hotmail.com>]

Karl: could you share with me the occurrences of yd b- with me, please? I 
would like to look at the verbal constructs. I know one occurrence in Ruth, 
but I'm not aware of the others.
 
Everybody: I guess what I want to arrive at is what would be a fair 
translation if we were to do this "ex nihilo" as it were, relying on previous 
translations as a guide but not slavishly tending to negative connotations 
that have been the hallmark of extant English translations.
 
 
The issues for us are:
 
1. He will be a (wild ass? wild stallion? free-ranging horse? "free spirit"?) 
of a man
2. His hand will be (against? in co-operation? in trade?) with all and all 
with him.
 
 
What, really, are the arguments for and against each of the choices? Harsh as 
it may sound, I suspect that extant translations have some biases at play. 
"People untrammeled by earthly authority generally end up in conflict with 
others" is one such bias I think is inconclusive. Would the angel be 
describing "warlike Bedouin tribes" or "powerful Arab traders"?
 
May I state the issue for discussion this way: if we were Hagar, listening to 
this encouragement/prophecy/pontification without explanantion, without 
hindsight, what would we have understood as the literal meaning of all this?
 
 
I am enjoying this discussion, and I look forward to many more of your 
erudite comments.
 
 
Betty Chan
 
 

 


Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 06:19:54 -0800
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Gen 16:12 Hand Against?
From: kwrandolph AT gmail.com
To: bh-chan AT hotmail.com
CC: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org

B Chan:


On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 11:29 PM, B Chan <bh-chan AT hotmail.com> wrote:


The entry for "Yado bakol" at 
http://www.learnhebrew.org.il/print/2010/july5.htm is strangely ironic.

It claims that the etymology comes from Genesis 16:12 which (it asserts) was 
a "definitely negative" meaning.

Then it goes on to say that "in recent years it has turned semi-positive".

Alas, what did the Genesis original communicate to Hagar!





The promise starts in verse 10: she will have many descendants, a blessing 
especially in those days. Then in verse 11: she will have a son. In many 
societies, having a son is preferable to having a daughter, even today. Both 
of these promises are very positive, especially in those days.


But when I look at the phrase YD B-, it is found over 20 times, and it refers 
to attacking and warfare, and often, though not always, victory over the 
enemies. So in the total context, we have a person who will be very fruitful, 
multiple descendants, untamable, involved in warfare with all around him. Yet 
there is indication that personal relations between him and Isaac remained 
amicable.


So it looks as if the traditional interpretation is correct after all.


Karl W. Randolph.