Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Isaac Fried <if AT math.bu.edu>]

How can a Hebrew root express in itself such a mysteriously  
complicated  idea as 'die'? Yet, QAVA קבע, 'fix, put down' is fine.  
Also, KVAH כבה, 'put out'. Also GAVA גבע, 'mount'. Also GAVAH  
גבה, 'go up', (then also QPA קפא, freeze', etc.). They all sound  
the same (at least nowadays). Why? because they are all the same on  
the root level. But they are all written differently. why? Because  
they  are all different in the act level.
I also recall now GEV גו, 'body', versus GEB and GAB גב, 'back'.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

On Jan 31, 2011, at 12:11 AM, fred burlingame wrote:

> Hello Isaac:
>
> Thanks for your comments.
>
> That's what I don't understand. When you say letters vav and bet  
> become "interchangeable," I don't comprehend.
>
> עוה (ah-va) appears to mean thick or fat; but
>
> עבה (ah-va) appears to mean bend or twist.
>
> גוע (ga-va) appears to mean expire or die; but
>
> גבע (ga-va) appears to mean hill or high.
>
> קוה (ka-va) appears to mean to wait or collect; but
>
> קבע (ka-va) appears to mean drain or bowl.
>
> Are you suggesting that these different word meanings would not not  
> change with and by a substitution of one letter, bet or vav, for  
> the other? Is that what you mean by "interchangeable?"
>
> regards,
>
> fred burlingame
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 9:06 PM, Isaac Fried <if AT math.bu.edu> wrote:
> 1. I know nothing about the "original" pronunciation of the letter  
> waw, all I know is that today it is pronounced vav.
> 2. All we know is that the letters B (no dagesh) and W (or V) sound  
> similarly, and that they are interchangeable, as, for instance in  
> עוה and עבה, or גוע and גבע, or קוה and קבע
>
> Isaac Fried, Boston University
>
> On Jan 30, 2011, at 8:22 PM, fred burlingame wrote:
>
> > Hello Isaac:
> >
> > Your proposal is interesting.
> >
> > But does any evidence exist to support it? Is there any actual  
> > instance of any ancient scroll or inscription or writing fragment  
> > actually utilizing the letter ב (bet) in the manner the letter ו  
> > (vav) is commonly used, as a conjunction at the beginning of a  
> > "sentence" or clause? or the stand alone verb בוא  (boh) for  
> > that purpose?
> >
> > I also gather that you don't see the original pronunciation of ו  
> > "waw" as "waw;" but rather the correct pronunciation of this  
> > letter was "vav?"
> >
> > I suppose I would observe by way of extension and analogy, that  
> > you would also see the pronouns attached to verbs, such as third  
> > person singular י (yod); as representing a contraction of an  
> > earlier stand alone pronoun?
> >
> > regards,
> >
> > fred burlingame
> >
> > On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 3:11 PM, Isaac Fried <if AT math.bu.edu> wrote:
> > It is not clear to me what you mean by or why you insist on  
> > "vocalization". Nowadays, as soon as we see a dot in the Hebrew  
> > letter bet we instinctively vocalize it as an English B,  
> > otherwise, we vocalize it as the English V, to wit: BA-U, yet, U- 
> > VA-U. I think that this change of sound in the presence of a  
> > dagesh is a mere historical coincidence, that came now to bedevil  
> > the Hebrew language. We can safely ignore it here.
> > In Deu. 1:28 it is, indeed, VA-RAM, translated as "and ('and'  
> > being from the Latin ante, 'opposite', and of the same sense as  
> > 'end') taller". It stands to reason that this attached VA used to  
> > be a separate word with a meaning of its own within the Hebrew  
> > language. What is it, then? I think it is BA (read it VA) in  
> > disguise, and meaning 'be' in the sense of 'is' or 'are', namely:  
> > "AM GADOL (is) RAM from us".
> >
> > Isaac Fried, Boston University