Biblical Hebrew Forum

["Paul Zellmer" <pzellmer AT sc.rr.com>]

So no source, no personal experience, just suppositions and beliefs.  Flies
in the face of linguistic studies and years of working with non-literate but
very language savvy cultures.  

 

Yes, I had to study the written text for years because it was not my first
language, but little children could speak Hebrew, and they grew to be the
ones to use and expand it as adults.  They didn't need to know how to read
to know the language.

 

Paul Zellmer

 

From: fred burlingame [mailto:tensorpath AT gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 10:17 PM
To: Paul Zellmer
Cc: B-Hebrew
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] guess work

 

i do not believe that most college educated people in america today can pick
up the book of isaiah or ezekiel (in english language), read it, and
understand its multiple layer metaphors .... much less hear it read once,
and understand it. ditto for the song of moses in deuteronomy.

 

What about people who have no formal education such 882 b.c., judah? Who
have never read a written book or scroll? Even less so the comprehension of
an elevated expression of the language such as isaiah.

 

people speak and write differently. you are projecting your years of
studying written hebrew onto the goat herder of 882 b.c., judah who never
read a written book.

the pomegranate seller on the street does not speak in the language of the
song of moses.

 

regards,

 

fred burlingame

 

 

 

 

On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 8:35 PM, Paul Zellmer <pzellmer AT sc.rr.com> wrote:

On what source(s) do you base your statements concerning the level of
language skills (note, this is different from literacy)?  So far, in all
your discussions, you have yet to give any.  Because, in my experience, most
people would have a higher language skill in their native language than
David Kolinsky demonstrated in his description.  This is because Hebrew is
not his native language.  They would have automatically understood the
distinctions without having to think through the base meaning of the words
and then apply it to the context.  And the language of Deuteronomy is not
complicated.  In fact, it is rather straight forward.  And the vocabulary is
neither unique nor technical.

 

As for the last paragraph, the connection is not evident to me.  What is the
impact on determining the definition of words and significance of syntax if
we knew whether or not the "average" citizen at the time could understand
the text?  This seems to be of importance to you, and I'm trying to figure
out if I am missing some aspect of my Hebrew study that will help me better
understand the text that I have been studying for years.  So far, I see no
significance at all.

 

Paul Zellmer

 

From: fred burlingame [mailto:tensorpath AT gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 6:44 PM
To: Paul Zellmer
Cc: B-Hebrew
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] guess work

 

I am saying that language comprehension does not come in a fixed container
or packet, but rather exists on a continuum. Some people have first grade
language skill; some people have high school language skill; and some people
enjoy graduate school language skill.

 

The deuteronomic legal code ("Code") can be consumed at different levels of
language skill, with corresponding greater or lesser degrees of
comprehension.

 

And I am saying, as I said before, that most consumers of the Code, then and
now, enjoy not the level of language skill that david possesses; or that is
possessed by the Code. Hence, the job of priest/lawyer includes boosting the
consumer level of comprehension for particular laws.

I also am given to understand that the levitical priests were constituted as
a dedicated profession, to be supported by the state "tax" revenue.

 

That the above relates the purposes of this forum is self evident.