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  • From: Isaac Fried <if AT math.bu.edu>
  • To: "Arnaud Fournet" <fournet.arnaud AT wanadoo.fr>
  • Cc: Hebrew List <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Vav Nun Suffix
  • Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2010 11:11:07 -0500

1. "vowel scheme" means nothing more than a vowel scheme. Every scheme is a scheme.

2. So what is the meaning of the root AB? Father? The fat one? The ba- ba of his baby talk? No Hebrew root can mean 'father'. Out of the question. And, to my knowledge, there are no onomatopoeic words in Hebrew.

3. Do you agree with me that SHAMARTA = SHAMAR-TA ( שמרת ), 'you have guarded', is the fusion of SHAMAR + ATAH ( שמר + אתה ), and that SHAMARNU = SHAMAR-NU (שמרנו ), 'we have guarded', is the fusion of SHAMAR + ANU ( שמר + אנו )?

3. The root CB means 'large'. We have from it the animal names CAB ( צב ), 'turtle'?, CBIY ( צבי = צב-היא ), 'deer', and CABUA ( צבוע = צב-הוא-ע ), 'hyaena'? Also, CABA ( צבא ), 'army, a large collection of items', and CABEH ( צבה = צב-היא ), 'inflated', as in Nu. 5:21, where the last pronoun is for the thing (belly) inflated.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

On Nov 21, 2010, at 7:29 AM, Arnaud Fournet wrote:


----- Original Message ----- From: "Isaac Fried" <if AT math.bu.edu>
To: "Arnaud Fournet" <fournet.arnaud AT wanadoo.fr>
Cc: "Pere Porta" <pporta7 AT gmail.com>; "Hebrew List" <b- hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2010 12:32 PM
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Vav Nun Suffix



1. It is not clear to me what you mean by "actual word". The Hebrew
word = root +identity markers (personal pronouns).
***
Talmud is a real word,
now we can dismantle it as being composed of:

- ta
- root l_m_d
- vowel scheme 0_u

A.
***


2. the root of AB, 'father', is B ( עב ), 'big'. It is also the root
of ABEH ( עבה ), 'thick', BUAH ( בועה, אבעבועה ),
'bubble, inflation', and appears in BA-AL ( בעל ), 'master',
together with the other uni-consonantal root L ( על ), 'elevation'.
***
Father is אב with aleph, neither the form nor the meaning is that of ( עב ), 'big'.
The rest is not better.
A.
**


3. I am not worried of falling into the "trap of etymological furor".
If you think carefully about what I am saying you will also come to
he conclusion that it can not be otherwise.
***
Well,
§2. indeed indicates that you are head-deep in etymological furor, maybe even etymological hybris.
A.
***


4. Identity markers are personal pronouns or universal (temporary)
names.
***
Well
we are not making any progress
as you define your idiosyncratic framework with other idiosyncratic words.
A.
***


5. The TA of TALMUD, 'learning', (from the root LMD), is the personal
pronoun ATAH (אתה ), while the internal U is the personal pronoun
HU ( הוא ), both referring to the thing itself.
***
How do you explain that a free form like (אתה ) "you" can become a bound form in ta-lmud, not to speak about the semantic problems?

I don't understand how the free forms atah and hu could fuse with an unutterable vowelless root l_m_d to spontaneously and nicely generate talmud.

A.
***



Recall that I said
that the attached (or inserted) personal pronouns are not the
detached ones.
***
Yes,
and that's clearly a major problem for your ad-hoc "theory".
A.
***


Similarly, we have NICAB ( ניצב ), 'perpendicular',
with an initial NI ( אני ), and MISHOR ( מישור ), 'plane',
with an initial MI ( מי ).
***
And do C_B and Sh_r exist with those meanings?

Arnaud Fournet





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