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  • From: pastormattfbcrankin <pastormattfbcrankin AT gmail.com>
  • To: fred burlingame <tensorpath AT gmail.com>
  • Cc: B-Hebrew <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] lock without a key
  • Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 09:15:23 -0500

Hello Fred,

What exactly is the "richness of these connections" that you are referring to
here? How is it that the Hebrew reader has a completely different
understanding that the English or Greek reader? I'm afraid I don't follow,
please enlighten me. Futhermore, how would you translate these verses that
would differ so greatly from how it is currently translated?

My Hebrew prof in college once said, "Every translation is a betrayal of the
text." This is true to a degree, but that being said it doesn't mean that
the language is locked i.e. indecipherable into another language. We will
lose certain nuances, but I suspect you are trying to say that we lose far
more than that.

Warmest Regards,

-Matt Williams


On Nov 1, 2010, at 9:28 PM, fred burlingame wrote:

> Hello Paul:
>
> I agree with your comments.
>
> I would observe however, that in this particular case, we have:
>
> a. a parent hebrew verb with a meaning to bore or pierce;
>
> b. a child hebrew noun with two alternate meanings of wealth/goods and army;
>
> c. and such two noun definitions used in two verses of close physical and
> subject matter proximity.
>
> The richness of these connections gives the hebrew reading consumer of the
> verses an entirely different understanding, than the disconnected english
> words reveal to the english reading consumer.
>
> Much of the hebrew meaning survives translation, not. Hence, the hebrew
> language appears locked to english or greek or any other language
> translation.
>
> regards,
>
> fred burlingame
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 8:04 PM, Paul Zellmer <pzellmer AT sc.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> Fred,
>>
>> The Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament (TWOT) has a good article
>> explaining the relationships of the various usages of the word. Basically,
>> both of the cases here would be considered idiomatic in the field of
>> translation. When translating idioms, one needs to almost always find the
>> underlying meaning behind the idiom as opposed to the actual words used and
>> translate that concept. This is because a direct, literal translation of
>> the idiom from one language to another yields either zero meaning or
>> incorrect meaning.
>>
>> This is not just true in translating Hebrew to English--it is the case when
>> you go from any language to another. It is especially true if the
>> languages
>> are not closely related.
>>
>> Paul Zellmer
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:
>> b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of fred burlingame
>> Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 5:06 PM
>> To: B-Hebrew
>> Subject: [b-hebrew] lock without a key
>>
>> Hello all:
>>
>> a little arithmetic.
>>
>> 1 = 2; or 2 = 2
>>
>> Biblical hebrew ("BH") language enjoys a unique characteristic. The
>> language
>> frequently employs a single word, twice or more, in physical proximity.
>> The single word however, denotes a different meaning in each location.
>>
>> Translations capture the different meanings of the single word, but lose
>> the
>> connexity of the verses, and the depth of the single hebrew word in the
>> process. Witness: חיל :
>>
>> וישבו בני ישראל נשי מדין ואת טפם ואת כל בהמתם ואת כל מקנהם ואת כל חילם בזזו
>>
>> numbers 31:9
>>
>> ויקצף משה על פקודי החיל שרי האלפים ושרי המאות הבאים מצבא המלחמה
>>
>> numbers 31:14
>>
>> And so, the question arises. Does BH contained a lock that prevents
>> translation?
>>
>> regards,
>>
>> fred burlingame
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
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