Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Randall Buth <randallbuth AT gmail.com>]

On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 9:23 PM, K Randolph <kwrandolph AT gmail.com> wrote:
> Randall:
>
> On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 2:32 AM, Randall Buth <randallbuth AT gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> PSS:
>> Karl egrapse
>> >As for the Waw Consecutive, I think it is safe to say that it represents
>> > a
>> continuation from what goes before.>
>>
>> Except when it doesn't   (i.e. doesn't continue the same T-A-M,
>> that is, the two sequential structures carry their own T-A-M).
>> e.g., Jud 13.3 (different time),
>
> I have never heard of the term T-A-M before, so can you explain it?

It is linguistic notation for "tense-aspect-mood" and often used in
comparative discussions where languages have divergent or blurred TAM
systems. It recognizes that languages often have forms and categories
in the verb system where tense-aspect-mood parameters cannot be easily
or neatly separated in the morphology. And it allows for neutral
discussion of systems where the parameters may be difficult to define,
or may differ with different theoretical assumptions/definitions.

> As far as Judges 13:3, the waws indicate a continuation of the narration,
> just as I indicated.


So you claim that extra words mean that the narration is continuing.
(And by narration you are including the quoted speech, here, which is fine.)
My responses had assumed more than tautology in your response,
especially since one of the common 'explanations' ('first [and second]
year lies') is that the T-A-M system of Hebrew is continued by
induction with the sequential verb structures. Which is not how Hebrew
works. Not only does that 'inducted TAM' not fit the data, as
mentioned, but it doesn't explain why Hebrew would have two sequential
structures for a single process of induction. The two structures carry
different TAM. Perhaps we're agreed on this.

braxot

>
>>
>> 1Sm 1.3 (different aspect),
>
> What does aspect have to do with the fact that the waws indicate continuance
> of the narration?
>
>>
>> Rut 3.9 (different mood/time),
>
> ?? Time is not indicated by the verbs. How do you figure “mood”?
>
> “I am Ruth your maid that you spread your cloak upon your maid for you are
> the redeemer.” (Talk about a proposal for marriage! Translated to simple
> English, “Marry me, its the law!”)
>
>>
>> Gen 20.11 (both we-qatal and wayyiqtol examples).
>
> I deliberately did not distinguish between we-qatal and wayyiqtol because in
> both cases they carry the narrative (and in this verse, action as well)
> forward.
>
>>
>> And (different aspect) Gen 47.22, 1Sm 2.22,
>
> Where do you get “aspect” from? How does that fit in Hebrew grammar?
>
>>
>> And (different mood/aspect) 2Ki 6.10
>
> Where are mood and aspect in Hebrew grammar?
>
>>
>> And Arad letter 16.3-5, (reading this as a promise)
>> we-`atta, ke-tseti mi-betexa, we-shalaHti et ha-kesef...
>> ועת כצתי מביתך ושלחתי את הכסף
>> 'after leaving your house and I will send the money...'
>>
>> Randall Buth
>>
>>
> I have made no secret in the past that I am not a grammarian, I just
> describe what i have noticed over many times of reading Tanakh in Hebrew
> from cover to cover. I don’t see in any of the examples that you referenced
> (yes, I checked them all) anything different than what I said in my earlier
> message, namely, that the waw indicates a carrying forward of the narration
> or action.
>
> And even the books that start with a waw show thereby that the authors
> considered that their narrations are a continuation of the grand narration
> of God’s actions into history.
>
> Karl W. Randolph.


-- 
Randall Buth, PhD
www.biblicalulpan.org
randallbuth AT gmail.com
Biblical Language Center
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