Biblical Hebrew Forum

[K Randolph <kwrandolph AT gmail.com>]

James:

On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 2:13 AM, James Christian
<jc.bhebrew AT googlemail.com>wrote:

> Hi Karl,
>
> in the meantime while I was writing George himself wrote to correct the
> date. This wasn't simple reliance on Wikipedia. This is the state of
> Egyptology.
>

I know. But it is the state of Egyptology that is a mess. (That’s why I put
a smiley after my reference to Wikipedia.)

>
> …
> None of the data I have provided draws from or relies on Manetho in any
> way.
>

On the contrary, the sorry state of Egyptology is sorry because it is based
on Manetho, with a few tweaks to account for some discoveries from
archeology.


> I have only references writing on the wall so to speak. I have only
> considered primary source data of physical remains of Archeology.
>
> The letters I was referring to were to Amenhoteps of the 18th dynasty. So I
> really don't see how they could be dated to 8th or 9th centuries.
>

Just when was the 18th dynasty? David Rohl places it in the 11th to 10th
centuries BC, the followers of Velikovsky in the tenth to ninth centuries
BC. Both base their datings on archeology. Both repudiate Manetho.

>
> The writing about Yhw of the land of the Shashu is in a 18th dynasty
> temple. Merheptah is a late 19th dynasty. He was the 13th son of Rameses II.
> Only came to power because all his older brothers kicked the bucket (for
> such a big number somebody probably helped them out with said kicking of
> said bucket).
>

Don’t need to assume foul play, as marriage was often young during those
days and lifespans often only about 60 years, so if Raamses II’s early
children were born while he was still a teen, and he didn’t die until in his
nineties, he also had 150 children (or was it sons?), the law of averages
would expect many of his children to predate papa in the grave from natural
causes.


> I find it most likely that the reference to Yhw is therefore much earlier
> than the Merneptah stele although it could be argued that this was a later
> addition to the temple but I've seen no data that would suggest this to be
> the case.
>
> Finally, it is an analysis of the Moabite stele, the Jewish written history
> and the Egyptian archeological sources that lead us to a chronology that
> would suggest the 18th dynasty. The Moabite stele sets the Kingdom of Isreal
> with Omri as King. We know how much earlier than the exile this was because
> of further records in Kings. We have a good idea who the Pharaoh of
> Solomon's day was because of the reference to Shishak (probably Shoshenq).
> Adding up the years to Solomon in the Torah, Joshua, Judges, and Samuel
> makes the 18th dynasty fit well chronologically.
>

Who was pharaoh SW) who was powerful enough that King Hoshea could expect to
save him from Assyria (2 Kings 17:4)? Could this have been Shoshenq? And
Shishaq either an alternate name for Thutmosis II or Raamses II? Those
pharaohs all had multiple names, not counting nicknames and
mispronunciations from other countries, so who was meant?

>
>
> Also, it would seem from Josephus we have a clear and unambiguous reference
> that the earlier great pharaohs who built the pyramids and so forth predated
> Abraham considerably.
>

I have not read Josephus. But I read a reference that claims that Josephus
claims that Israel built the pyramids while as slaves in Egypt. If true,
that would put the pyramid building well after Abraham.

Further, there are parallels between Imhotep and Joseph: Asiatic, lived 110
years, founded the office of grand vizier, saved the country from a seven
year drought, was considered very wise, consolidated the power of pharaoh,
suggesting that the two were probably the same.

>
> James Christian
>
> It was from reading Exodus that I originally rejected the sorry state of
Egyptology: it does not match at all with anything from the 18th or 19th
dynasties. But what actually happened? I’m not sure. Was the Exodus during
the 13th dynasty? During the Hyksos period? Both are possibilities.

Notice, my rejection was originally based on a linguistic analysis of the
Hebrew language as expressed in Exodus.

Karl W. Randolph.