b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Biblical Hebrew Forum
List archive
- From: TedBro AT aol.com
- To: aaa AT endlyss.com, b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
- Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Vowel Subsitution
- Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 11:01:04 EST
Hi, All:
One approach to Richard's question is to analyze the vowel marks for YHWH
in the phrase Adonai YHWH as compared with YHWH alone. Both occur multiple
times in Isaiah 50. Adonai YHWH is found in verses 4, 5 and 7. YHWH without
Adonai occurs in verse 1 and then twice in verse 10.
In both Adonai YHWH and stand alone YHWH, the vowel under the Y is a shva.
In my understanding a shva on an initial consonant is normally followed by
a consonant with its own vowel so that the combination becomes a sort of
consonant blend. However the first H does not carry a vowel in the MT. This
is perhaps a clue that something unusual is afoot. One way to understand
this is to note that the first vowel of both Adonai and Elohim is aleph with
a
hatuph, which becomes a shva when moved under the yod of YHWH.
More clearly, notice how the vowel under the vav differs. In the phrase,
Adonai YHWH, it would make little sense to pronounce YHWH as Adonai since
that would produce the duplication Adonai Adonai. Custom is to read Elohim
in
these cases. In fact we find a hireq under the vav of YHWH in these
instances. In the stand alone, when YHWH is pronounced Adonai, the vav has a
qamatz. What other explanation could there be for the hireq other than the
traditional Qere / Kitiv?
One question I have for the list is: What happened to the holem? Both Adon
ai and Elohim have medial vav-holem. The common understanding of the
transliteration Jehovah is the the "o" is derived from that medial holem.
It
seems that I have seen YHWH written with the holem in the MT, but a cursory
look did not find one. Can anyone explain this?
Thanks,
Ted Brownstein
In a message dated 12/23/2009 8:21:25 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
aaa AT endlyss.com writes:
I am wondering what the group thinks about this paper by Nehemiah Gordon
regarding the vowels of The Name refuting the established belief that the
Masoretes substituted the vowels of Adonai. He uses Biblical Hebrew
manuscript evidence.
http://www.karaite-korner.org/yhwh_2.pdf It's an easy read.
Nehemiah Gordon is a Karaite Jew and has extensive education and experience
with ancient Hebrew.
I just want to know the truth as to the proof of the vowel substitution if
there is any. I hear other rumors as well such as that they changed all the
vowels to avoid "Yah" in names such as Y'hoshua, Y'huda, and such, and even
one rumor that says they purposely changed the vowels to create a word that
would actually cause the speaker to be cursing God.
Adonai substitution--maybe. Rumor 2 I think rather doubtful. Rumor 3 sounds
preposterous because that would be a great sin to purposely cause others to
commit blasphemy in ignorance.
I just want to separate the true knowns from the unknowns, rumors, and
falsehoods. I have no personal agenda, just seeking the truth.
Thanks.
Richard Conaway
-
[b-hebrew] Vowel Subsitution,
Richard, 12/23/2009
- <Possible follow-up(s)>
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Vowel Subsitution,
TedBro, 12/24/2009
- Re: [b-hebrew] Vowel Subsitution, Yigal Levin, 12/24/2009
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Vowel Subsitution,
tedbro, 12/26/2009
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Vowel Subsitution,
Jason Hare, 12/26/2009
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Vowel Subsitution,
K Randolph, 12/26/2009
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Vowel Subsitution,
Oun Kwon, 12/26/2009
-
Message not available
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Vowel Subsitution,
Jason Hare, 12/26/2009
- Re: [b-hebrew] Vowel Subsitution, Bryant J. Williams III, 12/26/2009
- Re: [b-hebrew] Vowel Subsitution, Hedrick Gary, 12/27/2009
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Vowel Subsitution,
Jason Hare, 12/26/2009
-
Message not available
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Vowel Subsitution,
Oun Kwon, 12/26/2009
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Vowel Subsitution,
K Randolph, 12/26/2009
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Vowel Subsitution,
Doug Belot, 12/26/2009
- [b-hebrew] PLEASE STOP, Yigal Levin, 12/27/2009
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Vowel Subsitution,
Jason Hare, 12/26/2009
Archive powered by MHonArc 2.6.24.