Biblical Hebrew Forum

[James Read <J.Read-2 AT sms.ed.ac.uk>]

Wow. You raise so many questionable issues in this one email I don't  
know where to start.

Quoting JimStinehart AT aol.com:

> 1.  James Christian wrote:  “Let us postulate that it is historically true
> that Abraham came out of Ur and wandered around Canann.  … c) As a chaldean
> of Ur, what was likely to be Abraham's mother tongue of birth d) did Abraham
> learn Canaanite while wandering about in Canaan?”
>
> Abraham did not “come out of Ur”.
>
> (a)  No university scholars view the Hebrews as originating in Ur.

Could you please define the term 'university scholars' and explain to  
me how exactly you consider that term to scale in ladder of values  
when compared with primary data which is what I intended to discuss?

> (b)  The Patriarchal narratives do not portray the Hebrews as originating
> in Ur.  As leading commentator

In the world according to you could you please define 'leading  
commentator' and why you would expect that to mean anything to me? I  
want data!

> Gordon Wenham notes at p.  55 of “World
> Biblical Commentary:  Genesis 1-15” (1987), MWLDT means “kindred”.

Ah. Finally, we get to some data.

> Our own Prof.
> Yigal Levin has likewise noted that whereas MWLDT can mean “birth” or “
> birth place” in modern Hebrew, MWLDT means “kindred” in Biblical   
> Hebrew.  Thus
> Genesis 11: 28 says that Haran died in the presence of his father, at the
> place where Haran’s kindred/MWLDT were, in Ur of the Kasdim/K%DYM (i.e., Late
> Bronze Age Ur;  Kasdim is  n-o-t  “Chaldean”!).

This reading doesn't make any sense. Of course he was with them. The  
context already said that.

> MWLDT is the most
> economical way to refer to Abraham, Nahor and Lot, who are Haran’s
> kindred/MWLDT/descendants of a common ancestor.  Genesis 11: 31 does  
>   n-o-t  say that Haran
> was born in Ur.  Abraham only visited Ur once, very briefly, on his father’s
> one and only caravan trip from Canaan out to distant Ur to buy lapis lazuli.

You have no real evidence for this assertion.

> (c)  Linguistics proves the case.  Biblical Hebrew is a virgin pure west
> Semitic language.  Biblical Hebrew is not a modified east Semitic language.

Really? Evidence please. Unsubstantiated assertions don't have much  
value around here.

> (d)  Abraham learned pre-Hebrew on his mother’s lap, in Canaan.  YHWH
> speaks pre-Hebrew to Abraham at Genesis 12: 1-3 in Harran, because that was
> Abraham’s native language.  (Over the centuries, the original spellings and
> grammar of the Patriarchal narratives were modified slightly to conform to
> fully-developed Biblical Hebrew.  The substantive content was never changed.)

Evidence!?!

> (e) No (M of Abraham or Terakh is ever mentioned in Mesopotamia in the
> Patriarchal narratives.  That’s  not an oversight.  No, that’s because no
> ancestor of Terakh ever stepped foot in Mesopotamia.  The Hebrews   
> are indigenous
> to Canaan.

What are you talking about? Evidence!?!

> (f)  Genesis 25: 8 specifically says that when Abraham died and was buried
> in Canaan, Abraham was gathered to his (M/people/ancestors.  That sentence
> makes sense only if Terakh’s ancestors had lived in, were indigenous to, and
> were buried in, Canaan.

At last. A statement you make and attempt to prove. However, does not  
explicitly say ancestors. You are reading things into the text that  
are not there. The greater context says that he is buried in a field  
he bought from a Hittite. No logical interpretation of the verse would  
have us believe that his ancestors were already buried in a field he  
had bought.

The whole context of the narrative is that Abraham is an alien to the  
land he is roaming.

> 2.  James Christian wrote:  “Let us also postulate that it is historically
> true that Jacob and sons ended up in Egypt and that later generations ended
> up in slavery and eventually came out of to wander about in Sinai.”
>
> There was no 400-year bondage of the Hebrews in Egypt.

Evidence!?! Which part of 'let us postulate' caused confusion?

>  (a)  Virtually no university scholar sees a 400-year bondage of the
> Hebrews in Egypt in secular history.

And I care because...?

> (b)  All of Joseph’s prophecies come true in the Patriarchal narratives.
> The Patriarchal narratives end with Joseph’s prophecy that very shortly after
> Joseph’s death, YHWH will lead the Hebrews back home to Canaan.  Genesis
> 50: 24-25

Why are you telling me this?

> (c)  The prophecy at Genesis 15: 14, 16 says nothing about Egypt, and is
> not referring to Egypt.

Evidence!?!

> (d)  Once again, linguistics proves the case.  Biblical Hebrew is a virgin
> pure west Semitic language.  There are virtually no traces of Egyptian in
> Biblical Hebrew.  The Hebrews were never in bondage in Egypt.


Evidence!?!


> 3.  Abraham could not speak Egyptian or Akkadian.  Abraham likely could not
> speak Hurrian or Aramaic either.  (Abraham’s brother, Nahor, probably
> learned both Hurrian and pre-Aramaic as second languages.)

Evidence!?!


> Abraham,  like many
> other people in Canaan, was able to get by in all the many various patois of
> west Semitic languages that were spoken in Canaan.  That was routine in Late
> Bronze Age Canaan.

Evidence!?!


> 4.  The Patriarchal narratives give accurate secular historical information
> about all of these issues.  In my controversial view, the Patriarchal
> narratives are 700 years older than the rest of the Bible, and are much more
> accurate concerning the secular history of the Late Bronze Age than   
> is the rest
> of the Bible.

That was the longest contentless email I have ever received. Please,  
make a better effort in the next attempt. I won't bother replying  
otherwise. Like George says, have you considered starting your own blog?

James Christian




> Jim Stinehart
> Evanston, Illinois
>
> **************Huge savings on HDTVs from Dell.com!
> (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221836042x1201399880/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.ne
> t%2Fclk%3B215073686%3B37034322%3Bb)



--
The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
Scotland, with registration number SC005336.