Biblical Hebrew Forum

[K Randolph <kwrandolph AT gmail.com>]

Yitzhak:
What you list below is an online site that lists information that indicates
that much of the traditional academic dating cannot be correct.

However, I treat much of his speculation the same way as I treat conspiracy
theorists: he starts from some facts, then builds castles in the air.

Examples from conspiracy theorists include the murder of President Kennedy:
facts that prove the government story false include the medical condition of
Kennedy when he was brought to the hospital; he had two entrance wounds on
the front of his body. From this data, plus a few other documented facts,
conspiracy theorists build all sorts of sweeping stories, with CIA
involvement, others Castro, still others organized crime, etc. as being the
perps. About all these facts indicate for certain is that a lone gunman
shooting from above and behind, the official government story to this day,
could not have done the deed.

Another problem we run into when looking at history is that names were not
consistent across languages and peoples. If when speaking about modern U.S.
presidents one mentions one called “the Gipper” or “the Great Communicator”,
that referred to Reagan, while “Slick” or “Slick Willie” refers to Clinton;
while in the U.S. such names are informal, they were formal among ancient
royalty (e.g. Thutmosis III also known as Shisherke, ששק in Hebrew) making
positive identification somewhat problematic. That’s not counting the
problems connected with transliterations. Similarly with countries, the same
problems exist. A modern example is the country known to the east as Niemcy,
to the north as Tyskland, to the west as Allemagne, to itself as
Deutschland, to us English speakers as Germany: if we were looking at it
three thousand years later from just scattered references, would we
recognize it as one country? Similarly, how many ancient countries and
rulers are listed two or more times under different names and different eras
in modern histories because it is not recognized that those were two or more
names for the same individual or land? For many of the ancients, we have no
more than scattered references.

While I treat many of his conclusions the same way as I treat conspiracy
theories, I note his footnotes and bibliography showing that the official
story taught by the majority of academic historians is often less tenable.
Further, he is not the only historian challenging the official line.

All of the above is just a long way of answering your claim that counter
examples to the lecturer I listened to exist from 1800 BC, whereas I say
that the picture is not so clear.

No, our Jim Stinehart would not have fun with this one, because it proves
that all his “conspiracy theories” are wrong. If only Jim would follow this
example and set up his own site, so he could present his theories in an
organized manner.

Karl W. Randolph.

On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 4:17 PM, Yitzhak Sapir <yitzhaksapir AT gmail.com>wrote:

> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 8:07 PM, Yitzhak Sapir wrote:
> > On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 6:26 PM, K Randolph wrote:
>
> >> 3) Your “early” counter examples have been pointed out by some
> historians
> >> actually to have dated from the early iron age, i.e. around 900 BC,
> rather
> >> than the 1800 BC claimed by the majority of academic historians. So
> there
> >> are questions about the validity of those counter examples.
> >
> > Huh?  What historians?
>
> Are you referring to this?
> http://www.specialtyinterests.net/zimrilim.html
> http://www.specialtyinterests.net/hammurabi.html
> http://www.specialtyinterests.net/mesopotamia.html
>
> Are those the sources that you seriously consider as questioning the
> validity
> of the counter examples?
>
> As an aside, I note the following quotes:
>
> "To Zimri Lim communicate the following: `Thus says your brother Hammurabi
> [of Yamhad]: The king of Ugarit has written to me as follows: [...]"
> I guess that makes Ugaritic all that more important for the study of the
> Bible!
>
> "Could Zimri Lim be Rezon when one lived in Mari and the other made
> Damascus
> his headquarters? [...] The literary form of the Mari letters remind
> us of the El
> Amarna letters which were written just some 100 years later. "
> Won't Jim have fun with this one?
>
> "Zimri Lim of Mari, whom we believe to have been Solomon's Syrian foe Rezon
>  and who was probably also known as Tushratta, "
>
> Yitzhak Sapir
>