Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Uri Hurwitz <uhurwitz AT yahoo.com>]

       Yigal wrote:
 
      ..." For the record, I also think that there must have 
been SOMETHING behind the story, and that the 13th century, i.e. the reign 
of Raamses II, is the most likely time for it. I also realize that since 
there is no hard evidence, my opinion is no more than that, and other 
opinions, as long as they don't contradict what evidence there is, are also 
legitimate."
 
    This approach to ancient narratives is indeed "Outline History". 
 
    I only wish to add that while obviuously people will form their own views,
ignorance of evidence is not a good basis to form such a  view. Just one
 example: of course one may reject Kitchen's conclusions, but only if one
 refutes them, or ignores the vast amount of extra-biblical material on which
 they are founded.
 
   As I mentioned, one of my difficulties with the biblical narrative is the
 huge number of people involved. This does lead us directly to a legitimate
subject matter of this list: the meaning of   ")LP", "eleph" .
 
  Uri Hurwitz                                                 Great Neck, NY
 




>From atdgz AT hotmail.com  Thu Jan 15 11:47:49 2009
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Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Year of Exodus
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Karl,

Under the "Demosthenes Sword" deadline of Friday I'd only venture the 
following:

1. There can be a mix of a & b, namely, a. legends based on a b. kernel of 
provable historical accuracy. And this is what I tried to convey. E.g., 
families or clans--whether large, very large or small group of people  
undergoing the experience and managing not only to pass it on, but have it 
also assume a central role through the redactor in the "official" national 
lore. 

2. Hoffmeier provides quite a bit of evidence via the analysis of toponyms of 
the post Hyksos Delta region. He conducted some digs there. I managed to find 
the actual BAR issue. It was in Vol 33 No 1. (January/February 2007). 
Additioinally & curiously he explains the absence of textual evidence (and we 
know that absence of evidence is not evidence for absence) as stemming, 
largely, from the muddy and moisture conditions at the Delta that have 
destroyed all papyri records. Not one, I believe, left. 

Gad Za"k

> Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 20:55:51 -0800
> From: kwrandolph AT gmail.com
> To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Year of Exodus
> 
> Gad:
> 
> On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 2:36 PM, G. Zack <atdgz AT hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> >
> > Further to your mention of Hoffmeier ...
> >
> > If memory serves I believe that Hoffmeier shows that Ramssess existed as a
> > town only betweem 1275 and 1075 BC.
> >
> > I had never heard of Hoffmeier before today, then all I know is from these
> messages. However, in that he agrees with K. Kitchen shows that he belongs.
> 
> One of the things that attracted me to a Hyksos pharaoh being the pharaoh of
> the Exodus was the deliberate destruction of Hyksos records at the time they
> were kicked out of Egypt. Thus a large population of Hebrew slaves could
> have left, with the destruction of the records obscuring the event from
> Egyptian history.
> 
> That was only one of the clues.
> 
> Another view is found at
> http://www.answersingenesis.org/tj/v15/i1/moses.aspwhere a
> professional archaeologist claims that there is evidence of the
> Exodus, only it is found in the pre-Hyksos period.
> 
> Basically, we're presented with two scenerios: either the Exodus and other
> pre-kingdom writings are legends, myths with a possible kernel of truth that
> is way exagerated from what actually happened; or it is accurate history. If
> the former, then there is no problem with the dating of K. Kitchen,
> Hoffmeier, et al; if the latter is true, then those dates are hopelessly
> wrong.
> 
> For the record, which most of you already know, I personally opt for the
> latter.
> 
> But away from such "historicity"-- there is, according to Hoffmeier,
> > archaeological and topographical evidence that supports the Exodus 
> > narrative
> > as a plausible account of some people's/clans'/families' departure from an
> > abusive sejourn in Egypt circa 1230...
> >
> > How much do we really *know* about Egyptian toponyms from the Hyksos
> period and before? Can we catagorically rule out the production cities
> mentioned in Exodus as being from an earlier period? I don't think so.
> 
> 
> > Gad Za'k
> > Canada
> >
> > Karl W. Randolph.
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