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Subject: Biblical Hebrew Forum
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- From: "K Randolph" <kwrandolph AT gmail.com>
- To: "B Hebrew" <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
- Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Year of Exodus
- Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 11:47:56 -0800
Gad:
It's confusing when you use different categories in response to a posting.
As far as I can tell, your mix of a & b is the same as my "former" (see
below).
While Hoffmeier did work on post Hyksos toponyms, what about Hyksos period
and pre-Hyksos toponyms? If the devastation of Egypt was as serious as
mentioned by David Downs (see URL below), is it not possible that some of
the cities named in Exodus were abandoned, and if rebuilt it was
significantly later and under possibly different names? Would that not
explain the different names found in post-Hyksos post-Exodus Egypt?
Karl W. Randolph.
On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 8:47 AM, G. Zack <atdgz AT hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Karl,
>
> Under the "Demosthenes Sword" deadline of Friday I'd only venture the
> following:
>
> 1. There can be a mix of a & b, namely, a. legends based on a b. kernel of
> provable historical accuracy. And this is what I tried to convey. E.g.,
> families or clans--whether large, very large or small group of people
> undergoing the experience and managing not only to pass it on, but have it
> also assume a central role through the redactor in the "official" national
> lore.
>
> 2. Hoffmeier provides quite a bit of evidence via the analysis of toponyms
> of the post Hyksos Delta region. He conducted some digs there. I managed to
> find the actual BAR issue. It was in Vol 33 No 1. (January/February 2007).
> Additioinally & curiously he explains the absence of textual evidence (and
> we know that absence of evidence is not evidence for absence) as stemming,
> largely, from the muddy and moisture conditions at the Delta that have
> destroyed all papyri records. Not one, I believe, left.
>
> Gad Za"k
>
> > Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 20:55:51 -0800
> > From: kwrandolph AT gmail.com
> > To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Year of Exodus
> >
> > Gad:
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 2:36 PM, G. Zack <atdgz AT hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Further to your mention of Hoffmeier ...
> > >
> > > If memory serves I believe that Hoffmeier shows that Ramssess existed
> as a
> > > town only betweem 1275 and 1075 BC.
> > >
> > > I had never heard of Hoffmeier before today, then all I know is from
> these
> > messages. However, in that he agrees with K. Kitchen shows that he
> belongs.
> >
> > One of the things that attracted me to a Hyksos pharaoh being the pharaoh
> of
> > the Exodus was the deliberate destruction of Hyksos records at the time
> they
> > were kicked out of Egypt. Thus a large population of Hebrew slaves could
> > have left, with the destruction of the records obscuring the event from
> > Egyptian history.
> >
> > That was only one of the clues.
> >
> > Another view is found at
> > http://www.answersingenesis.org/tj/v15/i1/moses.asp<http://www.answersingenesis.org/tj/v15/i1/moses.aspwhere>where
> > a
>
> professional archaeologist claims that there is evidence of the
> > Exodus, only it is found in the pre-Hyksos period.
> >
> > Basically, we're presented with two scenerios: either the Exodus and
> other
> > pre-kingdom writings are legends, myths with a possible kernel of truth
> that
> > is way exagerated from what actually happened; or it is accurate history.
> If
> > the former, then there is no problem with the dating of K. Kitchen,
> > Hoffmeier, et al; if the latter is true, then those dates are hopelessly
> > wrong.
> >
> > For the record, which most of you already know, I personally opt for the
> > latter.
> >
> > But away from such "historicity"-- there is, according to Hoffmeier,
> > > archaeological and topographical evidence that supports the Exodus
> narrative
> > > as a plausible account of some people's/clans'/families' departure from
> an
> > > abusive sejourn in Egypt circa 1230...
> > >
> > > How much do we really *know* about Egyptian toponyms from the Hyksos
> > period and before? Can we catagorically rule out the production cities
> > mentioned in Exodus as being from an earlier period? I don't think so.
> >
> >
> > > Gad Za'k
> > > Canada
> > >
> > > Karl W. Randolph.
> > _______________________________________________
> > b-hebrew mailing list
> > b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew
>
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-
Re: [b-hebrew] Year of Exodus
, (continued)
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Year of Exodus,
Yitzhak Sapir, 01/14/2009
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Year of Exodus,
K Randolph, 01/14/2009
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Year of Exodus,
Kevin Riley, 01/14/2009
-
[b-hebrew] Year of Exodus (FROM MODERATORS),
George Athas, 01/14/2009
- Re: [b-hebrew] Year of Exodus (FROM MODERATORS), Oun Kwon, 01/14/2009
- Re: [b-hebrew] Year of Exodus, K Randolph, 01/14/2009
-
[b-hebrew] Year of Exodus (FROM MODERATORS),
George Athas, 01/14/2009
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Year of Exodus,
Kevin Riley, 01/14/2009
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Year of Exodus,
K Randolph, 01/14/2009
-
[b-hebrew] Year of Exodus,
Uri Hurwitz, 01/14/2009
- Re: [b-hebrew] Year of Exodus, K Randolph, 01/14/2009
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Year of Exodus,
G. Zack, 01/14/2009
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Year of Exodus,
K Randolph, 01/14/2009
-
Message not available
- Re: [b-hebrew] Year of Exodus, K Randolph, 01/15/2009
-
Message not available
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Year of Exodus,
K Randolph, 01/14/2009
- Re: [b-hebrew] Year of Exodus, Yigal Levin, 01/15/2009
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Year of Exodus,
Yitzhak Sapir, 01/14/2009
- [b-hebrew] Year of Exodus, Uri Hurwitz, 01/15/2009
- Re: [b-hebrew] Year of Exodus, George Athas, 01/15/2009
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