Biblical Hebrew Forum

[davidfentonism AT aim.com]

 Dear Shoshana, while I agree with your points about the oracles of Hashem 
being given to the Yehudim, Torah as intended by Hashem is for all mankind 
which it declares itself as do the Sages. However, and I appreciate your 
frustration with the tenor of some of the interpretations which might appear 
on the list, I think it is permissinble that people be allowed to present 
broader interpretations of Torah according to their academic and/or 
theological traditions. We are always free to disagree and say why and their 
freedom to do the same ought to be respected.
 
 Shalom,
 David
    ----------------------------
 Gal. 27-29: For as many as have had a tevilah into Moshiach have clothed 
yourselves with Moshiach. There is not Yehudi nor Yevani (Greek), there is 
not eved (servant) nor ben chorin (freedman), there is not zachar (male) nor 
nekevah (female), for you are all echad in Moshiach Yehoshua/Yeshua. And, if 
you belong to Moshiach (YESHAYAH 53:10), then you are of the ZERAH of Avraham 
Avinu, you are yoreshim (heirs) according to the havtachah (promise).   
 -----Original Message-----
 From: rosewalk AT concentric.net
 To: scottanderin1 AT hotmail.com; b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
 Sent: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 8:24 PM
 Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Dying, you will die Gen 2:17
 
  Hello????  BY WHAT RIGHT are you quoting Romans to explain OUR Torah?

What does it mean "God had created Adam with a perfect human life, 
but without the life of God in him"?  Nothing!  The statement is 
complete theological and other, nonsense!

"The tree of life was the source of the eternal life of God for man." 
Who said that?  You?  G-d did not say that.

"Even though Adam had a sinless human life which was not dying, to 
fulfill God's plan he still needed the life of God, which is what the 
Messiah restored our access to." - Well, DUH - everyone needs "the 
life of G-d".

When did we lose it?  When did the "Messiah restore our access" to 
it???  What "Messiah"? What access are you talking about?  When did 
Adam NOT have the life of G-d?  WHEN DO ANY ONE OF US HAVE LIFE 
WITHOUT G-D?  Did you ever think you could EVEN MOVE YOUR LITTLE 
FINGER WITHOUT G-D GIVING YOU THE POWER/LIFE TO DO SO?  WOULD YOU 
WAKE UP IN THE MORNING ALIVE WITHOUT G-D GIVING YOU LIFE?

Are you really that arrogant? Do you really know what you are alleging?

Is that your own gobbeldygook? By what authority do you proclaim such 
meaningless nonsense to a list which is SUPPOSED to be above 
religious doctrine, even though it is SUPPOSEDLY about OUR TORAH!? 
Which only we JEWS have all the tools to know it?  Not to be 
obnoxious, you are welcome to try to understand it, but not if you 
think you know better than us, ie; if you see your idolotrous man-G-d 
Jesus everywhere in Torah - as this was never G-d's teaching to US - 
you know, the People to whom He gave it to by Divine revelation, only 
someone's desire to start a new religion, but they couldn't fool 
everyone, after all.

The Torah was G-d's revelation to US - THE ISRAELITES - THE JEWS! - 
not to YOU!  We had to work HARD for it. So if you want to understand 
it, by all means use Hebrew linguistics, BUT ASK US ALSO and know 
that linguistics is just touching the surface!

I have been quiet for a very long time on this list - months - and I 
have not promoted Jewish doctrine, as I have been admonished over and 
over again, not to, but until I am removed and banned by the owners 
in case they have an anti-Jewish agenda and are offended by me, I 
will not cease and desist from defending MY Torah, AGAINST YOUR FALSE 
NON-JEWISH DOCTRINE - since no one else on this list seems to care - 
from those of you "strangers" who would defame it and attempt to 
steal it from us and "own" it for yourselves!

Yes, that is exactly what you are attempting to do!

Do do you now understand why our Sages proclaimed mourning and 
fasting when our written Torah was forced into translation into 
Greek, and why G-d, in His unbounded WISDOM, gave most of the Torah 
ORALLY - to be handed down generation after generation only to the 
most worthy of our leaders - until it had to be written down because 
of the conquerers of our land who dispersed us, and we HAVE A RECORD 
OF EACH AND EVERY PERSON GENERATION TO GENERATION who, by virtue of 
their worthiness was our leader, and transmitted Torah + Oral Torah 
TO US - not you - so that you could never have access AT LEAST TO 
THIS, TO THE HEART AND SOUL AND HIDDEN DEPTHS OF TORAH, to 
mistranslate, to misconstrue, to attempt to take it away from us and 
to attempt to OWN IT FOR YOURSELVES FOR YOUR OWN PERSONAL AND 
RELIGIONS AGENDAS - as you attempted to do with our WRITTEN TORAH!

A little respect PLEASE!

OK, now you can all yell at me, I have had 8 days (diaspora 
temporarily for now) of observing Pesach that fortified me - that 
renews my liberation from the spiritual bondage which you attempt to 
impose on me and us Jews always in every generation, by trying to 
steal MY TORAH away from me! I am strong now!  Bring it on!

Shoshanna






 

Shoshanna



[Steve Miller] I think your question is good. In answering it, we know that
death did not come until Adam ate from the tree of knowledge. (Rom
5:12,15,17). God had created Adam with a perfect human life, but without the
life of God in him. This is similar to the state of the righteous gentiles
who will compose the restored nations in the new heaven and new earth. (Matt
26:31-46; Rev 21:3-4; 22:2)
The tree of life was the source of the eternal life of God for man. Even
though Adam had a sinless human life which was not dying, to fulfill God's
plan he still needed the life of God, which is what the Messiah restored our
access to.

> save ourselves, and God wants us totally reliant on Him.
>      It is also commonly taught that their sin ruptured their relationship
> with God.  How can we claim that?  There is not one reference of Adam or
> Eve
> communicating to God before sin. And there is no picture of worship
> either.
> The relationship actually seems pretty bland.

[Steve Miller] You can get the idea of the sweet fellowship they had with
God before the fall by God bringing before Adam all the animals He had
created, and letting Adam name them. Also, God coming to fellowship with
them in the cool of the day.

>     I know this would be drifting away from Biblical Hebrew slightly, but
>would anyone like to discuss this or any other related garden topics?

Sure. Email me off-list. Try not to write too long though. Thanks.

-Steve Miller
Detroit
www.voiceInWilderness.info

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