Biblical Hebrew Forum

[kgraham0938 AT comcast.net]

@Vadim:  You wrote
Whether a translation asnwers a particular question is irrelevant, though
one can prefer "I am" to "I will be" only on theological grounds. What is
relevant, is grammatical correctness. I showed few weeks ago on this list
that a theory of tenseless Hebrew is absurd, and Hebrew use of tenses is
perfectly consistent. Grammatically, the meaning is "I will be."

Vadim Cherny

Response: Well, don't you think that a translation should make sense?  Even 
though I understand your point of grammar, I don't think one can do proper 
translation without context.


--
Kelton Graham 
KGRAHAM0938 AT comcast.net

-------------- Original message -------------- 

> On 12/09/2005 07:19, Vadim Cherny wrote: 
> 
> > ... 
> > 
> > 
> >We discussed this issue with issue a short while ago, and I proved 
> >decisively that Hebrew uses tenses absolutely correctly, in standard 
> >sense, 
> >but allows, like Russian, deictic centre shifts. The theory of tenseless 
> >Hebrew makes sense only for people who believe that all world uses tenses 
> >as 
> >English and German speakers. 
> > 
> > 
> 
> Vadim, whatever you may consider you have proved, in the light of recent 
> discussions, you can only claimed to have "proved decisively" if your 
> results have been published in a peer reviewed academic journal and 
> gained wide acceptance. And for that to happen you would have to go into 
> several linguistic issues in considerably more depth than you have done 
> on this list. Otherwise I think the best that you can claim is to have 
> an alternative hypothesis or theory. 
> 
> >Besides, as I also noted, how many yiqtols elsewhere are translated with 
> >present continuous? 
> > 
> > 
> 
> Quite a lot. Rolf probably has figures for this. But you will find that 
> only a small proportion of YIQTOLs in the Hebrew Bible are translated as 
> non-modal futures. 
> 
> -- 
> Peter Kirk 
> peter AT qaya.org (personal) 
> peterkirk AT qaya.org (work) 
> http://www.qaya.org/ 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> No virus found in this outgoing message. 
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. 
> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.21/96 - Release Date: 10/09/2005 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
> b-hebrew mailing list 
> b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org 
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew 
>From peterkirk AT qaya.org  Mon Sep 12 12:58:11 2005
Return-Path: <peterkirk AT qaya.org>
X-Original-To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Delivered-To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Received: from pan.hu-pan.com (unknown [67.15.6.3])
        by lists.ibiblio.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB3534C00B
        for <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>; Mon, 12 Sep 2005 12:58:11 -0400 
(EDT)
Received: from 213-162-124-237.peterk253.adsl.metronet.co.uk
        ([213.162.124.237] helo=[10.0.0.1])
        by pan.hu-pan.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52)
        id 1EErcz-0006Hq-Kg; Mon, 12 Sep 2005 17:58:10 +0100
Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.344 [267.10.21]);
        Mon, 12 Sep 2005 17:58:03 +0100
Message-ID: <4325B39B.9080002 AT qaya.org>
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 17:58:03 +0100
From: Peter Kirk <peterkirk AT qaya.org>
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716)
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
To: David P Donnelly <davedonnelly1 AT juno.com>
References: <20050912.093034.2580.0.davedonnelly1 AT juno.com>
In-Reply-To: <20050912.093034.2580.0.davedonnelly1 AT juno.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse,
        please include it with any abuse report
X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - pan.hu-pan.com
X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - lists.ibiblio.org
X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12]
X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - qaya.org
X-Source: 
X-Source-Args: 
X-Source-Dir: 
Cc: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] 11th century Codex Laurentianus V 3 says: YHWH = Iaou
X-BeenThere: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6
Precedence: list
List-Id: Hebrew Bible List <b-hebrew.lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew>,
        <mailto:b-hebrew-request AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/b-hebrew>
List-Post: <mailto:b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Help: <mailto:sympa AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=HELP>
List-Subscribe: <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew>,
        <mailto:b-hebrew-request AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 16:58:12 -0000

On 12/09/2005 14:30, David P Donnelly wrote:

>http://www.christianism.com/articles/13.html 
>...
>
>What authority are 19th and 20th century scholars using 
>when they say that Clement of Alexandria wrote “Iaoue”
>in his Greek Stromata Book V. Chapter 6 verse 34?
> 
>While there are extant Catenas that claim that Clement of Alexandria
>wrote "Iaoue" 
>in Stromata Book V. Chapter 6, verse 34, 
>what Greek manuscript evidence were the authors of these Catenas  using, 
>when they quoted Clement of Alexandria as writing Iaoue at Stromata Book
>V. Chapter 6, verse 34?
>
>  
>
In principle there could be evidence from quotations from Clement's 
work, even in translation, which would suggest an alternative original 
reading. For example, a quotation "IAOVE" or "IAVE" in an ancient Latin 
father would be good evidence that Clement's original had a final 
epsilon - or perhaps alpha-iota pronounced similarly.

But I too would like to see what the evidence actually is.

-- 
Peter Kirk
peter AT qaya.org (personal)
peterkirk AT qaya.org (work)
http://www.qaya.org/



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.21/96 - Release Date: 10/09/2005