Biblical Hebrew Forum

["Read, James C" <K0434995 AT kingston.ac.uk>]

Just an observation as a passive listener.

I come from a highly scientific background and as such have always been 
inclined to 
base understanding on observations and proofs.
I haven't studied this particular word enough to have formulated an opinion 
on it 
but one thing I will say is that Karl's words below are irrefiutable.
Having grown up with such a family Karl will have experienced firsthand the 
flaws and 
limitations of 'experts'. 'Expertise' is often a description bestowed upon a 
minority 
because of position or affluence.
e.g. My English students often used to tell me that I spoke 'bad English'. 
Why? Because 
I used to say 'I'll' or 'I will' whereas their schooling had taught them that 
first person 
singular demands 'I shall'. What was this based on? Grammars written hundreds 
of years ago by 
elite minorities from Cambridge or Oxford. Who gives such a minority the 
right to represent 
what is correct English? Having always heard 'I'll go' it seemed natural 
English to me and 
to countless other English people I know. But according to a handful of 
affluent individuals 
the rest of the English speaking world is apparently wrong. And just because 
its written in an 
'authoritive book' they have manages to convince a large number of foreign 
English students that
their English is better than my own. What kind of a linguistic system is that?

Recourse to scholars usually indicates a lack of ability to support one's 
position from data 
alone. And IMNSHO all discussion on this list should be based on data alone 
if it is to be 
taken seriously.

-----Original Message-----
From: b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org on behalf of Karl Randolph
Sent: Thu 8/25/2005 8:49 AM
To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] XSD
 
Dear Harold:

I am not going to argue with you.

First of all, I come from an academic family. At least 
two of my great-grandparents had masters degrees, 
all four of my grandparents graduated from college 
programs, one was a professor, both my parents have 
PhDs and have taught at universities, and you expect 
me to be awed by "experts"? C'mon!

Basically, we differ on methodology, and until we can 
come to a consensus on that, we will never come to a 
consensus on the other issues that divide us. You 
believe the scholarly consensus is infallible; I see it, 
like any other human endeavor, often taking wrong 
turns. You claim that an interpretation that is old, it 
is right just because it is old; I counter that even 
traditions can be in error. While you base your 
studies on scholars and traditions, I base mine on 
methodology. One part of the methodology is that it is 
very rare for a lexeme to have two or more distinctly 
different definitions. Another part is to use an 
unpointed text. Another is where there are synonyms 
and antonyms recognized, that comparisons with these 
can help. And there are others.

Karl W. Randolph.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Harold R. Holmyard III" <hholmyard AT ont.com>

> 
> Dear Karl,
>
>...
>
> HH: But a persistent myth is different than the credible knowledge of
> the scholarly community. There is etymological data from other
> Semitic languages, and signs of the same root being used the same way
> in Hebrew. That is not a myth. Nor have you refuted the existing
> belief.
>
>...
>
>                               Yours,
>                               Harold Holmyard

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On 25/08/2005 07:42, Karl Randolph wrote:

>...
>The question is, which pattern did ancient Hebrew
>follow?
>
>It looks as if Yitzhak may have the answer: ancient
>Hebrew had very few compound lexemes, and they
>followed the German pattern of being
>morphologically combined.
>
>

I would reword this: as Yitzhak pointed out ancient Hebrew had very few
compound lexemes *which* followed the German pattern of being
morphologically combined. But it clearly had a large number of compound
lexemes which follow the Chinese model, which is also common in English.
I gave one example. I don't have time to list many more of the hundreds
which can be found for example in the (incomplete) SDBH dictionary, see
http://www.sdbh.org/ and look for examples like BEYT-'AB and MATTEH
'ABOT in the first sample entry 'AB. These two are not perhaps ideal
examples, but I am sure you can find better ones by a search - although
unfortunately there is not yet a published entry for NS' which,
according to one list I saw, is part of at least 20 or so (Chinese
pattern) compound lexemes.

>As for "filling the hand", that appears to refer to
>first during the consecration week for Aaron and
>his sons, twice they had their hands filled with
>objects to be sacrificed (Leviticus 8-9) and many
>of the sacrifices called for a handful of flour or
>grain to be added to the offering.
>
>

Yes, but ordination or consecration is semantically quite a different
matter from taking a handful of grain. Hebrew uses similar, but not
identical, phrases for both, but they are still clearly distinct
actions. For MILLE' YAD referring to a one off ordination or
consecration ceremony, see Exodus 28:41, 29:9,29,33,35, Leviticus 8:33,
16:32, 21:10, Numbers 3:3, Judges 17:5,12, 1 Kings 13:33, Ezekiel 43:26
(concerning the altar), 1 Chronicles 29:5 (meaning debatable), 2
Chronicles 13:9, 29:31 (again debatable). Almost none of these can
possibly refer to a literal filling of the hands.

You gave one example of the priests' hands being literally filled in
Leviticus 9. But what example do you have from Leviticus 8?

--
Peter Kirk
peter AT qaya.org (personal)
peterkirk AT qaya.org (work)
http://www.qaya.org/



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