Biblical Hebrew Forum

["Karl Randolph" <kwrandolph AT email.com>]

Harold:

Did you read the file Bill referred to, 
http://chronicle.com/free/v49/i21/21b02001.htm in 
particular looking at reason "5. The discoverer says a 
belief is credible because it has endured for centuries." 
It looks as if you practice this fallacy.

Not taking roots into consideration is also a fallacy. 
Many nouns are morphologically and according to meaning 
verbal forms, most often participles. The same with other 
grammatical forms. I don't see how you can ignore this. 
This is not to say that the root overrules all other data, 
but at the same time it should not be ignored.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Harold R. Holmyard III" <hholmyard AT ont.com>

> 
> Dear Karl,
> 
> >  > HHL The problem with this is that X+)T means sin
> >>  or sin-offering. And your translation for Prov
> >>  14:34 makes no sense:
> >>
> > Harold: I just went through a description of X+)T going
> > back to its root meaning of missing the mark, or more
> > properly erring. The New Testament hAMARTIA has almost
> > the exact same meaning and was chosen for that reason.
> > Didn't you listen? Just because it is usually given a
> > theological meaning does not mean that the theological
> > meaning is the correct one in all uses.
> 
> HH: You have not demonstrated that X+)T  ever means "error" anywhere
> else. It may never have had that meaning in ancient Hebrew. One
> lexicon lists five nouns related to the verb X+). They may have
> differed from one another in meaning.
> 
Judges 20:16 shows the root meaning of to err: don't tell 
me that those slingers were morally not sinning.

> ...
> 
> >  > > "Justice exults a nation,
> >>  but undeserved good favor of peoples errs."
> >>
> >>  HH: XSD means favor or kindness, and the positive
> >>  sense of the word is understood to be a good
> >>  thing. It is one of the great things that we as
> >>  sinners depend on, God's kindness. So to say that
> >>  it is an error contradicts the sense of the words
> >>  in the Bible.
> >>
> > Not at all. Again you start with a theological use and
> > apply it to all examples of its use. That's backwards.
> > Start with the general use, then recognize the more
> > narrow theological use when appropriate.
> 
> HH: Even the general use makes no sense. Kindness is a good thing to
> show people.
> 
Not in the context, where kindness is done at the expense 
of justice. If a murderer is set free instead of executed, 
that is undeserved kindness that is injust. Genesis 9:6.

...
> 
> HH: You don't seem to realize that if you come up with an
> interpretation of Scripture that no one has had in two thousand or
> more years of study on the topic, it is probably incorrect.

Just because it is old, that doesn't make it correct. Just 
because it is new, does not make it better. Each has to 
stand on its own two feet.

> >  > >  Give me a good argument based
> >>  > on the language, and I may change how I understand the
> >>  > text: merely quoting "experts" aint goin te cut th'
> >>  > butter.
> >>
> >>  HH: The good argument is that there is a related
> >>  verb at Prov. 25:10 that means to "shame."
> >>
> > I listed that verse in my original question, as an example
> > of how it could be understood as undeserved good favor,
> > much like the recipient in Proverbs 25:21.
> 
> HH: Is this the statement you're referring to?
> 
> ...
> 
> HH: I don't see that you have tried to prove this assertion anywhere.
> I don't see how it would work in Prov. 25:10.
> 
To put that verse into modern English, if you have an 
argument with someone else, argue with him, and don't 
reveal other consultations, lest the one who hears it 
treats you well undeservably and your evil report will 
not return. As I understand these verses, if one gets 
people to treat him well based on falsehood (more likely, 
one sided portrayal), when they find out that they have 
been snookered into supporting him (taking sides in his 
argument), they will make sure that he has a bad 
reputation at least in their own hearts. Like all 
proverbs, I am reading between the lines, looking at 
the actions, to try to make sense of what is said.

This is the same sort of reading between the lines to 
make sense of "a stitch in time saves nine" or "pretty 
is as pretty does".

> 
>                               Yours,
>                               Harold Holmyard

Karl W. Randolph.


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