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  • From: "George Athas" <gathas AT hotkey.net.au>
  • To: <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Piel etc.
  • Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 18:00:36 +1000

Hi Joel!

Thank you for your comment about the binyanim (ie, stems) not dictating
semantic sense. I agree with you to an extent. You helpfully imply that
language does not work like mathematics -- it is far more fluid and abstract
in its logic and operations, and Biblical Hebrew is no exception. However, I
would not swing the pendulum so far the other way that the binyanim/stems
become purely arbitrary forms. There does seem to be some method to the
'madness' of the binyanim/stems. It might be a verbal chaos theory, but I
think there is some logical control. When claiming that there is an intensive
or heightening sense to verbs in the Piel, we do not mean that the sense is
artificially imposed upon the root from the outside. Rather, the semantic
range of the root itself in the Piel lends itself to heightened action.

For example, it is not that the verb DiBBeR means to 'speak emphatically' or
anything like that. Rather, it is that Biblical Hebrew sees the very action
of speaking as somehow heightened. In other words, the root DBR naturally
occurs in the Piel stem because Biblical Hebrew sees the Piel stem as the
appropriate form. If you compare the usage of DiBBeR (Piel, 'to speak') with
the use of (aMaR (Qal, 'to say'), you will find that while there is a lot of
semantic overlap, there is a slightly different semantic range because the
Qal is generally reserved for the most basic of stems, and the Piel is
reserved for more formalised or heightened action. We might not readily see
what the 'heightened' feature of the action is, but that doesn't really
matter much in the end. Piel might be heightened in the sense that it causes
a state to occur, or an action is viewed intensively, but these nuances are
not added to the semantic range; they are to be seen within the semantic
range of the particular root. This is why virtually no verb occurs in all
seven binyanim/stems -- each of the binyanim/stems has a particular feel to
it. It's not a mathematical imposition upon the root such that a nuance can
be derived, but is rather a sense such that a nuance is felt.

Also, I think Karl is right about the dangers of using Modern Hebrew to make
definitive statements about Biblical Hebrew. It sometimes has illustrative
value, but not determinative value.

Best Regards,

GEORGE ATHAS
(Sydney, Australia)



----- Original Message -----
From: Dr. Joel M. Hoffman
To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 1:32 AM
Subject: [b-hebrew] Piel etc.


Regarding Piel etc.:

It is simply not true that the binyanim dictate semantic sense. So to
say that "Piel [is] a heightened action of some kind," or that "Piel
[is] the imposition of a state (adjectival)..." is to do everyone a
disservice.

In both modern and ancient Hebrew, each binyan tends to cluster around
a set of meanings, but the clustering is not absolute. Some people
therefore conclude that there are "rules and lots of exceptions," but
I don't find that approach helpful or accurate, both because the rules
tend to be complicated, and because the exceptions outnumber the
non-exceptions.

Furthermore, the belief in semantic rules that accompany the binyanim
leads to (sometimes severe) misunderstandings of the Hebrew words,
because people try to force their wrong notions of the semantic import
of the binyanim onto the words.

For example, in Modern Hebrew, the Piel GIDDEL means "to grow (plants)
or to raise (children)," while the hiphil HIGDIL means "to enlarge."
Similarly, the hiphil HIRXIK means "to cause to be far away," while
its opposite, "to cause to be nearby," is Piel (KEREV).

There is nothing intensive or emphatic about "speaking" (Piel: DIBBER)
or, for that matter, faxing (Piel: FIKSES), or focusing [a camera, say]
(Piel: FIKES). Returning to Biblical Hebrew, there is still nothing
emphatic about "speaking." We can also look, say, at Genesis 12:3,
where we find two words for "curse" clearly used in parallel, but one
is in Piel (KILLEL), while its synonym is in Kal (ARAR). Similarly,
the passive of BERACH (Piel) is not Pual but Niphal (NIVRACH) there.

There is nothing emphatic about the nearly-passive verb "to get," but
it, too, is Piel: KIBEL.

Branching out a bit, the Niphal verbs NISHBA' ("to swear") and NAMAS
("to melt") are not at all passive, and neither are the modern Hebrew
Niphal verbs NIZKAR ("to recall") and NIFTAR ("to die").

For that matter, the relationship between NIFTAR/HITPATER
("die"/"quit") is not at all the same as the relationship between
'IBED/HIT'ABED ("lose"/"commit suicide").

The oppositve of "to gain weight" (Hiphel: HISHMIN) is the Kal verb RAZA
("to lose weight").

The Kal verb 'AVAD means "to work" or "to serve," while the Piel 'IBED
means "to process."

The Piel verb KIRSEM simply means "to gnaw" not "to gnaw
emphatically." The hiphil verb "HEVIN" simply means "to understand,"
not "to cause someone to have wisdom."

These and many, many, more examples disprove any notion of binyanim
dictating semantics.

Nonetheless, it is generally true that Kal/Niphal, Piel/Pual and
Hiphel/Huphal form active/passive pairs, though even there exceptions
are not uncommon.

-Joel Hoffman
(joel AT exc.com)






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>From peterkirk AT qaya.org Fri May 13 08:09:11 2005
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On 13/05/2005 04:07, tladatsi AT charter.net wrote:

>Mr. Kirk,
>
>yes, rivers with deltas do form short, indistinct branches.
>Yes rivers can be divided by sand bars, ox bows, and
>sloughs. The Nile does form two main, and many smaller,
>channels in the delta, but not above. However, no river
>anywhere branches out to form two distinct rivers in
>separate beds in opposite directions, much less into
>separate valleys or basins as the Tigris and Euphrates do.
>
>
>
This is not true. As Karl mentioned, the Orinoco splits into two rivers
which flow in quite different directions. The branches of the Nile are
quite distinct channels which enter the sea up to 100 miles apart. In
antiquity one branch may even have flowed into the Red Sea. And no one
is claiming that the four rivers of Eden, if in lower Mesopotamia, were
"distinct rivers in separate beds in opposite directions, much less into
separate valleys or basins".

As I see it, there are two alternatives for the rivers of Eden:

1) Four branches into which the Euphrates or similar split as in a
delta, when close to the sea in lower Mesopotamia.

2) Four rivers of some other area, very likely in modern terms eastern
Turkey or north west Iran, which were commonly believed to have a common
source even though this is not actually true.

Or of course, if we look at just the text, the whole thing could have
been pure mythology.

--
Peter Kirk
peter AT qaya.org (personal)
peterkirk AT qaya.org (work)
http://www.qaya.org/



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