Biblical Hebrew Forum

[George F Somsel <gfsomsel AT juno.com>]

On Fri, 22 Apr 2005 15:56:58 +0300 "Vadim Cherny" <VadimCherny AT mail.ru>
writes:
> 
> > Again, I am not making a valuation of the principle of
> > punishing the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or even 10th generation for
> > the crimes or sins of one man (or I suppose one woman for
> > that matter).  I am not judging either the fairness or
> > efficacy of this principle.  I merely stated that it was
> > expounded in theory and enforced in practice.
> 
> Enforced?? Surely not.
> And you simply misinterpret the theory.
> 
> > That being said, of the three case studies that this thread
> > identified, Joshua 7, 1 Sam 15, and 2 Sam 21, none involves
> > idolatry.
> >
> 
> Josh7: the house of Achan actually profited from illegal things, so 
> all who
> profited were punished - not their descendants. Besides, "them" 
> might refer
> to goods, not to people - because they were burned, and animals 
> stoned. The
> heap of stones commemorates "him," not "them."
> 
> Amalek in 1Sam15 was an enemy nation. Saul dealt with the current 
> problem,
> rationalized  by past grievances. But Amalekites committed idolatry 
> in the
> sense of opposing the divine will.
> 
> In 2Sam21, David did not recognize that Gibeonites have a right to 
> punish
> Saul's children. Indeed, Gibeonites were not bound by Hebrew 
> commandments.
> David rather recognized the merits of their vengeance. Saul, of 
> course,
> committed idolatry by sparing the animals for sacrifice, thus 
> imagining that
> sacrifices, the material, are more important than obedience.
> 
> Vadim Cherny
> 
> _______________________________________________

Vadim,

I think you misinterpret the passage.  It begins

WaY:HiY Rf(fB B.iYM"Y DfWiD . . . WaY:BaQ."$ D.fWiD )eT_P.:N"Y YHWH

and concludes 

W:H"M.f HuM:TW. B.iYM"Y QfCiYR B.fRi)$ONiYM T:XiL.aT Q:CiYR #:(oRiYM

This would serve to connect it to the judgment of God as well as David's
recognition.

george
gfsomsel
___________
>From kwrandolph AT email.com  Fri Apr 22 16:16:17 2005
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From: "Karl Randolph" <kwrandolph AT email.com>
To: Hebrew <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 15:17:22 -0500
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] children bear punishment for sins of parents - 
Examples
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Jack:

I missed (or read too quickly) this statement. The quote from Exodus 20:7 i=
s incorrect. PQD does not necessarily mean punishment. It=20
includes the idea of consequences without punishment meant per se.

The Hebrew word for punishment is YSR, which also has the implication of co=
rrection.

Karl W. Randolph.

>=20
>=20
> > Chris wrote:-
> >
> >>No where in the bible do we read about the children being
> punished for the sins of the fathers.  And I would
> vehemently challenge anyone to show this.
>
> Here:
>
> Exd 34:7 I show this unfailing love to many thousands by
> forgiving every kind of sin and rebellion. Even so I do not
> leave sin unpunished, but I punish the children for the
> sins of their parents to the third and fourth generations."
>
> Likewise Exd 20:5, Deu: 23:8, Num 14:18, Deu 5:9 - that is
> just the third and fourth generation.  Deu 23:2-3 goes into
> the 10th generation.
>
>
> Jack Tladatsi
>
>
--=20
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