Biblical Hebrew Forum

[George F Somsel <gfsomsel AT juno.com>]

On Sat, 2 Apr 2005 22:51:58 EST Myshalom777 AT aol.com writes:
In a message dated 02/04/2005 18:22:33 GMT Standard Time,
gfsomsel AT juno.com writes:
I have no candidate since I refuse to speculate on the matter.  All that
is required is that there be such a child.  A determination of precisely
who it may have been is, in any case, beside the point.  The point is not
the child but that of which the child will be a sign.

george
gfsomsel
======
Hello George,

Perhaps someone could tell us if there is a sense in which a *particular*
'almah' is indicated by the Hebrew text of Isaiah 7. In any case it has
not stopped Jewish interpreters from speculating.

Celal Berker
www.eefc.co.u
www.fiec.org.uk
www.hristiyan.net

______________

I think you are correct to note that it is a *particular* )aL:MfH who is
in view here.  It would seem that the article would indicate this.

The basic opposition of the categories definite: indefinite is similar:
in Hebrew, as in English, the definite noun directs attention to the
referent’s identity, while the indefinite noun focuses on the class to
which the referent belongs, its quality and character. In # 8 the use of
an indefinite (or anarthrous) noun emphasizes the class to which the
referent belongs, while in # 9 the definite (or arthrous) noun phrase
highlights the particularity of the referent.?? 

Waltke, B. K., & O'Connor, M. P. (1990). _An introduction to biblical
Hebrew syntax_. Includes indexes. (Page 236). Winona Lake, Ind.:
Eisenbrauns.

Therefore, it must have been a particular individual to whom the prophet
pointed by his words, but this is not so evident to us.  It could have
been the prophet's wife, some member of the royal family, or (who knows ?
) even the high priest's wife.  We lack too much information regarding to
whom such a term might have referred since we have only a limited account
of the society at that time.  Therefore any statement regarding her
identity would be sheer supposition.  Not only so, but it is entirely
beyond what is necessary to understand the force of the passage, viz.
Some specific woman is pregnant, will bear a son whom she will name
Immanuel, and before this child is weaned Syria will be a thing of the
past.

george
gfsomsel
___________
>From tladatsi AT charter.net  Sun Apr  3 03:42:35 2005
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Subject: [b-hebrew] Isaiah 7 
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I dare say my point was missed completely by everyone who 
commented.

I was trying to make some points about how to translate the 
word almah from Hebrew into English in the context of 
Isaiah.  I was not trying to make any theological points 
about prophecy, short or long term.

My point was that almah, by itself, out of context, can be 
translated as either virgin or young woman.  The only way 
to determine the authors point is to look at the context.

1) If Isaiah were using the word almah to mean the mother 
of Immanuel was a virgin at the time of either conception 
and/or birth, Isaiah would be describing an unexpected, 
unprecedented, and miraculous event, an event the which 
would be result of devine intervention. Isaiah however 
treats the birth of Immanual in an off-handed fashion.  The 
conception and birth are only mentioned once.  No effort 
was made to draw any signicanse from the birth of Immanuel 
from an almah.  If Isaiah had meant that Immanuels birth 
was a miracle, it does not seem clear.

2) In contrast, Matthew (and Luke) say that Jesus was born 
to a parthanos.  They view this fact as a miracle.  They 
draw great attention to this fact and draw great 
significanse from.  It seems quite clear that Matthew means 
parthanos to mean virgin and that that was a miracle.