Biblical Hebrew Forum

["George F. Somsel" <gfsomsel AT juno.com>]

)fM:NfM CiY )aT.eM_(fM W:(iM.fCeM T.fMW.T TfMW.T XfK:MfH

gfsomsel
___________

On Tue, 25 May 2004 17:22:41 +0300 "UUC" <unikom AT paco.net> writes:
> Dear Harold,
> 
> 
> 
> How about otzer?
> 
> 
> 
> The translation of confinement (otzer, vs8) as oppression is 
> unwarranted. The word is also translated thus in Psalm 107:39, which 
> is clearly wrong in relation to the princes mentioned there. Rulers 
> can be pressed (surrounded and wander in wastes) but not oppressed. 
> In the only other instance, Proverbs 30:16, the same word refers to 
> barren [womb], also a closed place, confinement. Because of (from) 
> oppression he was taken is also meaningless, unless we assume he was 
> taken from this world of oppression to the heavenly kingdom; but 
> Isaiah does not profess resurrection. In the Tanach, taken [by God] 
> is used only with Enoch and Elijah, and seems too high-flown 
> considering the writer's attitude toward his subject. Further, this 
> reading is not congruent with  his soul was exposed to death.
> 
> The translation of confinement as perversion or protection is 
> unwarranted.
> 
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Vadim Cherny
> _______________________________________________
> b-hebrew mailing list
> b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew
> 
> 
>From hholmyard AT ont.com  Wed May 26 20:19:48 2004
Return-Path: <hholmyard AT ont.com>
Delivered-To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Received: from online.OnlineToday.Com (online.OnlineToday.Com [204.181.200.2])
        by happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54DE020064
        for <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>; Wed, 26 May 2004 20:19:47 -0400 
(EDT)
Received: from [205.242.61.55] (na156.OnlineToday.Com [205.242.61.156])
        by online.OnlineToday.Com (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id 
i4R0JgLv014195
        for <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>; Wed, 26 May 2004 19:19:44 -0500 
(CDT)
Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Sender: hholmyard AT mail.ont.com
Message-Id: <a0602040dbcdadcee96c9@[205.242.61.55]>
In-Reply-To: <200405262015.i4QKEn4i005031 AT mxsf14.cluster1.charter.net>
References: <200405262015.i4QKEn4i005031 AT mxsf14.cluster1.charter.net>
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 19:17:22 -0500
To: <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
From: "Harold R. Holmyard III" <hholmyard AT ont.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.4
Subject: [b-hebrew] Re: Exodus & Hyksos
X-BeenThere: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4
Precedence: list
List-Id: Hebrew Bible List <b-hebrew.lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew>,
        <mailto:b-hebrew-request AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/b-hebrew>
List-Post: <mailto:b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Help: <mailto:sympa AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=HELP>
List-Subscribe: <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew>,
        <mailto:b-hebrew-request AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 00:19:49 -0000

Dear David,

>Dr. Merrill is of course correct that no one=20
>likes to admit defeat, and the ancient Egyptians=20
>were no different (there are plenty of Americans=20
>who think the US won the war of 1812).  He is=20
>also correct that different kings of Egypt=20
>exerted different amounts of effort to maintain=20
>Egyptian control of Canaan.  Nonetheless, Egypt=20
>did control Canaan more or less from the=20
>expulsion of the Hyksos to some time just before=20
>the reign of King David.  The Armana Letters,=20
>the Merneptah Stele, and other evidence all=20
>point this out.  Judges and Joshua do not even=20
>mention any Egyptians in Canaan although their=20
>presence there is well documented both in Egypt=20
>and Canaan for just about any realistic period=20
>for the conquest. There is simply no way a group=20
>could flee Egypt and then conquer Canaan forty=20
>years later and be consistent with the evidence.

HH: What I remember of the Amarna tablets is that=20
Egypt failed to respond to the cry of the cities=20
for help from attackers. We don't know what the=20
strength of the Egyptian presence was. Dr.=20
Merrill has given you factual information about=20
the rulers at the time. Israel did not take full=20
possession of the land immediately, and never=20
really conquered parts of Canaan. And Egypt could=20
have maintained a presence at Joppa, Gaza,=20
Beth-shan, and elsewhere despite the presence of=20
Israel. The International Standard Bbile=20
Encyclopedia writes:

Most of the Amarna Letters reveal an unsettled=20
state of affairs in Syro-Palestine itself, which=20
belies the superficial appearance of unity=20
implied by the Egyptian presence in Hither Asia.=20
The morale of the Canaanite princelings had=20
greatly deteriorated during the period of=20
Egyptian decline with the result that they were=20
often at war with each other. In their=20
correspondence they occasionally stooped to=20
hurling mutual accusations of treason against the=20
crown and disloyalty to one another. Under such=20
circumstances they were vulnerable to attack by=20
dissident elements within their own domains as=20
well as by enemies from without, and in their=20
letters to the pharaohs we frequently read their=20
desperate pleas for fresh supplies of Egyptian=20
and Nubian archers to man their garrisons. Such=20
requests were met uniformly with a stony silence=20
by the Egyptian court. The dissolution of the=20
Egyptian empire in Syro-Palestine, already=20
underway during the rule of Amenhotep III, was=20
greatly accelerated under Akhenaten, who was=20
preoccupied with domestic affairs for most of his=20
reign.

HH: Even the cities that Joshua defeated, like=20
Jerusalem (Josh 10:5; 12:10), were not=20
necessarily defeated permanently. David had to go=20
back and conquer Jerusalem, which was still in=20
the hands of non-Israelites around 1000 B.C. The=20
full conquest took hundreds of years. The Book of=20
Judges shows how it faltered:

Judg. 1:27 =B6 But Manasseh did not drive out the=20
people of Beth Shan or Taanach or Dor or Ibleam=20
or Megiddo and their surrounding settlements, for=20
the Canaanites were determined to live in that=20
land.
Judg. 1:28 When Israel became strong, they=20
pressed the Canaanites into forced labor but=20
never drove them out completely.
Judg. 1:29 Nor did Ephraim drive out the=20
Canaanites living in Gezer, but the Canaanites=20
continued to live there among them.
Judg. 1:30 Neither did Zebulun drive out the=20
Canaanites living in Kitron or Nahalol, who=20
remained among them; but they did subject them to=20
forced labor.
Judg. 1:31 Nor did Asher drive out those living=20
in Acco or Sidon or Ahlab or Aczib or Helbah or=20
Aphek or Rehob,
Judg. 1:32 and because of this the people of=20
Asher lived among the Canaanite inhabitants of=20
the land.
Judg. 1:33 Neither did Naphtali drive out those=20
living in Beth Shemesh or Beth Anath; but the=20
Naphtalites too lived among the Canaanite=20
inhabitants of the land, and those living in Beth=20
Shemesh and Beth Anath became forced laborers for=20
them.
Judg. 1:34 The Amorites confined the Danites to=20
the hill country, not allowing them to come down=20
into the plain.
Judg. 1:35 And the Amorites were determined also=20
to hold out in Mount Heres, Aijalon and Shaalbim,=20
but when the power of the house of Joseph=20
increased, they too were pressed into forced=20
labor.
Judg. 1:36 The boundary of the Amorites was from=20
Scorpion Pass to Sela and beyond.
Judg. 2:1 =B6 The angel of the LORD went up from=20
Gilgal to Bokim and said,  "I brought you up out=20
of Egypt and led you into the land that I swore=20
to give to your forefathers. I said,  'I will=20
never break my covenant with you,
Judg. 2:2 and you shall not make a covenant with=20
the people of this land, but you shall break down=20
their altars.' Yet you have disobeyed me. Why=20
have you done this?
Judg. 2:3 Now therefore I tell you that I will=20
not drive them out before you; they will be=20
[thorns] in your sides and their gods will be a=20
snare to you."

                                Yours,
                                Harold Holmyard