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b-hebrew - RE: [b-hebrew] Psa 107:19-21 (was WAYYIQTOL)

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  • From: "Ken Penner" <pennerkm AT mcmaster.ca>
  • To: "'Peter Kirk'" <peterkirk AT qaya.org>
  • Cc: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: RE: [b-hebrew] Psa 107:19-21 (was WAYYIQTOL)
  • Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:37:14 -0500

Hi Peter,

You suggested using the LXX and other ancient translations to see what model
of verb semantics they assume.
May I suggest Beat Zuber, _Das Tempussystem des biblischen Hebräisch: Eine
Untersuchung dem Text_ (BZAW 164; Berlin: Walter de Gruyter, 1986). He does
just this, using the LXX and Vulgate. If I understand him aright, he finds
qatal, wayyiqtol, and conjunctive weqatal are indicative (action that is
real); yiqtol, consecutive weqatal, and weyiqtol are modal (action that has
not been fulfilled in reality).

I would very much like to hear responses to Zuber's view, which seems to
anticipate Galia Hatav's, and offers a good fit with what I am finding in
the Qumran texts.

Ken Penner, M.C.S. (Biblical Languages, Greek Focus), M.A. (Hebrew Poetry)
Ph.D. (cand.), McMaster University
pennerkm AT mcmaster.ca
Hebrew vocabulary software: http://s91279732.onlinehome.us/flash or
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flash_pro/join


> These consequences give us the possibility to test your
> hypothesis. At
> least, I presume that there would be similar distinctions between
> translations according to the two models in translations into other
> languages, including Greek (several times), Latin, Syriac and
> Aramaic.
> The Hebrew Bible was translated directly (although not always
> entirely
> independently) into at least these four languages long before
> the time
> of the Masoretes. If we can find examples in any of these
> translations,
> especially in the more literal ones, in which WAYYIQTOL and
> WEYIQTOL are
> rendered differently, that would indicate that there was a
> pre-Masoretic
> distinction.
>
> Looking at my we'a`aseh and wa'a`as examples in the LXX, I find the
> following:
>
> Verse Hebrew form Greek tense
>
> Gen 27:9 weyiqtol POIHSW
> Gen 35:3 weyiqtol aorist subjunctive
> Exo 32:10 weyiqtol POIHSW
> Num 14:12 weyiqtol POIHSW
> Deu 9:14 weyiqtol POIHSW
> Deu 10:3 short wayyiqtol aorist
> Deu 12:30 weyiqtol POIHSW
> 1Sa 20:4 weyiqtol POIHSW
> 2Sa 9:1 weyiqtol POIHSW
> 2Sa 9:3 weyiqtol POIHSW
> 2Sa 24:12 weyiqtol POIHSW
> 1Ch 21:10 weyiqtol POIHSW
> Neh 6:13 weyiqtol POIHSW (2 Esdras 16:13)
> Ezk 12:7 short wayyiqtol aorist
> Ezk 20:9 short wayyiqtol aorist
> Ezk 20:14 long wayyiqtol aorist
> Ezk 20:22 short wayyiqtol aorist
> Ezk 24:18 short wayyqitol aorist
> Dan 8:27 long wayyiqtol imperfect (A: EPRAGMATEUOMHN; B: EPOIOUN)
>
> Note that the Greek form POIHSW is in fact fact ambiguous
> between future
> and aorist subjunctive, but the aorist subjunctive in such
> contexts has
> a clearly future modal sense. On the other hand, the aorist
> indicative
> is unambiguously past. Thus there is clear indication that
> WEYIQTOL was
> consistently translated as future or modal and WAYYIQTOL
> consistently as
> past indicative. Daniel 8:27 is interesting because two independent
> translations seem to have rendered this form, pointed by the
> Masoretes
> as an unusual long WAYYIQTOL, with a Greek imperfect.
>
> But a better test might be with cases which are not distinct in the
> consonantal text.
>
> Also you might argue that these cases would be translated as
> they have
> been from the context rather than from the verb semantics. So
> you might
> like to supply some of your ten thousand examples where you
> would argue
> for a translation different from the traditional one, in which
> presumably the context is ambiguous. We can then examine LXX
> and other
> ancient translations to see if they support the traditional
> understanding or your one. Do you think that would be a fair test, at
> least of how the unpointed Hebrew text was understood at the
> time when
> these ancient translations were made?





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