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Re: [b-hebrew] Ancient pronunciation of biblical names
- From: Uri Hurwitz <uhurwitz AT yahoo.com>
- To: Karl Randolph <kwrandolph AT email.com>, Hebrew <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
- Cc:
- Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Ancient pronunciation of biblical names
- Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 19:04:12 -0800 (PST)
Karl Randolph <kwrandolph AT email.com> wrote:
Isnt there evidence for more changes than just these listed?
For example, the tet (between chet and yod) had the same form and position
in the alphabet as the theta in Greek. Did the Greek change it to the theta
sound, or did Hebrew, under the influence of Aramaic, lose the theta sound?
From what I know of linguistic sound shifts and how they show up in writing,
I think the latter is more likely
<snip>
The "Tet" is part and parcel of the regular Semitic alphabet, one of the
so-called "emphatics"; clearly distinct fromthe the the other "T", in
Arabic speech, for example.(should also be in Heb,, epecially in Sephardi
reading, and in modern speech, but lost under the influence of European
languages. A similar change started in Talmudic times, if not before)
<snip>
> >>
> >
> There are very many names which appear in the Hebrew Bible with reduced
> first vowels but in the Septuagint in longer forms. Other examples are
> Samson (Hebrew: Shimshon), Solomon (Hebrew: Sh'lomo) and Sodom (Hebrew:
> S'dom).
The LXX was probably closer to original pronounciations , compare with
classical Arabic which retained most of the so-called proto-Semitic forms;
however compare also with cuneiform evidence for private names.
It all depends on what period one refers to when one consider "ancient
pronounciation". Are we discussing here only the late Second Temple period?
Uri_______________________________________________
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From: "Shai Heijmans" <shaih AT post.tau.ac.il>
To: <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: RE: [b-hebrew] Re: Ancient pronunciation of biblical names
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 06:30:48 +0200
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Karl,
You are right of course, my bad english is again for all to see :)
Yet I think I am right in my main point, that is that most unstressed
syllables in english are reduced to shwa.
Shai
> -----Original Message-----
> From: b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org
> [mailto:b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Karl Randolph
> Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 12:44 AM
> To: Hebrew
> Subject: RE: [b-hebrew] Re: Ancient pronunciation of biblical names
>
>
> Shai:
>
> Where is 'contributed' pronounced with the emphasis on 'con'?
> As a native speaker (of American variety, at least) I have
> always heard the emphasis on 'trib'.
>
> However, your theory may be correct, in that I was taught
> that medieval Hebrew, if not earlier, had its emphasis
> wherever possible on the final syllable. Thus the first
> syllable would tend to atrophy.
>
> Karl W. Randolph.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Shai Heijmans" <shaih AT post.tau.ac.il>
>
> > Hi Michael,
> >
> > Reduction of unstressed vowels is a very normal process in all
> > languages; you don't need to have special factors.
> >
> > Take for example your sentence:
> >
> > > I asked for theories about what
> > > linguistic factors might have contributed to the
> > > reduction of the first syllables
> >
> > Look carefully, and you see that almost all unstressed vowels are
> > reduced. Take for instance the word "con-tri-bu-ted". The primary
> > stress in in CON and the secondary is in BU. The rest of the vowels
> > are reduced to shwa (TRI, TED). And the same with "asked", "about",
> > "factors", "reduction", "syllables" - all unstressed vowels have
> > become shwa.
> >
> > The real question is not why vowels were reduced in
> Tiberian Hebrew,
> > but rather what made some unstressd vowels maintain their distinct
> > character. *THAT* might be the influence of Aramaic.
> >
> > Shai
> --
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-
[b-hebrew] Ancient pronunciation of biblical names,
Sesamo m., 02/13/2004
- Re: [b-hebrew] Ancient pronunciation of biblical names, Harold R. Holmyard III, 02/13/2004
- <Possible follow-up(s)>
-
RE: [b-hebrew] Ancient pronunciation of biblical names,
Trevor Peterson, 02/13/2004
- Re: [b-hebrew] Ancient pronunciation of biblical names, Peter Kirk, 02/13/2004
-
RE: [b-hebrew] Ancient pronunciation of biblical names,
Trevor Peterson, 02/13/2004
- RE: [b-hebrew] Ancient pronunciation of biblical names, Harold R. Holmyard III, 02/13/2004
-
RE: [b-hebrew] Ancient pronunciation of biblical names,
Shai Heijmans, 02/14/2004
- Re: [b-hebrew] Ancient pronunciation of biblical names, Jason Hare, 02/15/2004
- Re: [b-hebrew] Ancient pronunciation of biblical names, leviny1 AT mail.biu.ac.il, 02/15/2004
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Ancient pronunciation of biblical names,
Karl Randolph, 02/17/2004
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Ancient pronunciation of biblical names,
Uri Hurwitz, 02/17/2004
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Ancient pronunciation of biblical names,
Peter Kirk, 02/18/2004
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Ancient pronunciation of biblical names,
Yigal Levin, 02/18/2004
-
Message not available
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Ancient pronunciation of biblical names,
Yigal Levin, 02/19/2004
- Re: [b-hebrew] Ancient pronunciation of biblical names, Peter Kirk, 02/19/2004
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Ancient pronunciation of biblical names,
Yigal Levin, 02/19/2004
-
Message not available
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Ancient pronunciation of biblical names,
Yigal Levin, 02/18/2004
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Ancient pronunciation of biblical names,
Peter Kirk, 02/18/2004
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Ancient pronunciation of biblical names,
Uri Hurwitz, 02/17/2004
- Re: [b-hebrew] Ancient pronunciation of biblical names, Karl Randolph, 02/19/2004
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