Biblical Hebrew Forum

["Peter Kirk" <peterkirk AT ozemail.com.au>]

Charles, I certainly didn't mean to attack you or any individual. You
are clearly doing a great job as a Hebrew teacher. I deliberately
separated my comments about Clay's opinion from my suggestion of elitism
because I think Clay's problem is a different one. My point about
elitism was a reaction to Trevor's apparent assumption (which maybe I
partially misread) that those who learn Hebrew are aiming to be leading
edge experts in Hebrew and other Semitic languages. Of course such
people need to know the script. But I still think that the rest of us
don't.

If only the Hebrew script was only 22 letters! It is also lots of vowel
points, other points, cantillation marks (which one has to recognise if
only to ignore!) etc etc. Just reading the text and viewing those vowel
points causes serious eye strain.

I write partly from the context of having lived in a country which
changed (many years ago) from a Semitic (Arabic) right-to-left script to
a Latin alphabet. Sure, the majority can now read only those books which
people have chosen to transcribe; and the triliteral patterns in the
many Arabic loan words are rather less obvious. But it is well known
that Latin scripts are much easier to learn than Arabic ones, and partly
because of that literacy rates have risen from single figures to well
over 90%, far higher than in a neighbouring country which still uses
Arabic script. I'm not sure if there is comparable research for Hebrew.

But I think Trevor has now managed to convince me that there is a good
reason for most Hebrew students, at least those who want to understand
the more subtle distinctions, to learn the Hebrew script.

Peter Kirk
peter.r.kirk AT ntlworld.com
http://web.onetel.net.uk/~peterkirk/
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Charles David Isbell [mailto:cisbell AT cox.net]
> Sent: 20 January 2003 23:56
> To: Peter Kirk; Biblical Hebrew
> Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] RE: Transliteration Schemes
> 
> Dear Peter and List,
> Peter, I have great respect for your work.  I do find it a bit
strained
> that
> you accuse Clay of giving an emotional response just before you close
with
> the following rhetorical question: "Could it be that the Semitic
language
> specialists have a vested interest in keeping Hebrew and other Semitic
> languages hard to learn so that they can perpetuate their intellectual
> elitism?"
> Now, Peter, I am currently in my 36th year of trying my best to make
> Hebrew
> learn-able, and over the years more than 90% of my University students
> have
> been Christians whose goals are very much like what you described ["to
> learn
> because knowing Hebrew is a useful tool for their work or study, as
Bible
> students, exegetes, pastors, Bible translators etc."]. But let me make
two
> simple points which I hope you can accept as something more than the
mere
> emotionalism of a Hebraiophile.
> First, while I am leading university classes through Hebrew each year,
I
> always have two or three bar mitzvah students whom I tutor privately.
> Some
> of them are familiar with the Hebrew [Aramaic] alphabet, many are not.
> All
> are between 10 and 12 years old.  And I think it might be helpful for
you
> and others on the list to know that Reform Jewish kids don't grow up
> speaking or thinking in Hebrew.  Many don't even have a bar mitzvah
any
> more.  But those who decide to do so are expected to read a short
Torah
> portion from an unpointed text, to read a Haftarah with points, and to
> read
> or sing several passages from the prayer book in Hebrew. I have never
had
> a
> kid, and remember we are talking about pre-teens here, take more than
> about
> two weeks to grasp the 22 letters of the alphabet.  Similarly, if you
use
> the book I have written to teach Biblical Hebrew, I spend only one
chapter
> on the alphabet, and again find semester after semester that Louisiana
> undergraduates have very little trouble learning to use the alphabet.
> These
> are not private school elitist kids, Peter, but public university
students
> in a state that ranks below everyone except Mississippi and Washington
D.C.
> in educational rigor.  But they are also kids whose motivation is
high,
> many
> of whom talk in terms very similar to you about their reason for
taking
> Hebrew.
> Second, I wonder how people learning only a transliteration system
fare
> when
> approaching the complicated massoretic methods of indicating
compensatory
> lengthening, assimilation of weak letters, etc.  I know how I do it by
> highlighting dots inside letters and assuring my students that certain
> dots
> are really small nuns, others merely start a syllable, etc.  I know
how to
> put a dot in a laryngeal and act surprised when my students tell me
such
> letters cannot be doubled/dotted, and I know how this leads me to
explain
> the lengthening that has taken place in front of a laryngeal that
rejects
> doubling.  And I teach students to look for roots as one of the basic
> tools
> of learning new vocabulary.  How would I do this with a series of
> apostrophes and English vowels that IN ENGLISH have equal weight as
> letters
> with consonants?  In Hebrew, I can put two words on the board with no
> vowels, and show quickly whether they derive from the same root or
not.
> Now I may be thought of as an elitist, but I find it passing strange
that
> on
> a list dedicated to a discussion of Biblical Hebrew anyone should be
> criticized in this way for assuming that college and seminary students
> might
> do what 10 year old Jewish kids around the world have been doing for
2000
> years.  And this is not a slap at Christians, Peter, just the
opposite.
> My
> point is that if 10-12 year old children can do it, surely adult
students
> who are motivated by the elegant [but not elitist! -- <G>] purpose
Peter
> delineated for Christian seminarians can also do it.
> We are talking about 22 letters here, folks, not 650 Akkadian signs,
not
> even 102 basic element symbols in Chemistry, or 24 Greek letters.  I
have
> never met anyone who came in with the kind of motivation to learn
Hebrew
> Peter describes, who quit when asked to learn 22 symbols.  Maybe my
> Louisiana college students are just smarter than I realized.
> Please do not attack me for being an elitist or for dissing Christians
or
> for trying to drive potential Hebraists away.  I am quite a common
person,
> I
> love Christians [and think everybody should know at least one!], and I
> have
> spent a lifetime trying my best to attract new recruits to the field I
> love.
> Charles