Biblical Hebrew Forum

["Lee R. Martin" <lmartin AT vol.com>]

Dear Bryan,
You are wrong.  The reason your addition of "with" makes sense is because
(1) "rejoice" is intransitive in English and (2)  we have no corresponding
noun in English that means "a rejoicing".   You are forcing the Hebrew
meanings to agree with English.   If your reasoning were followed, we would
have to reclassify Hebrew stative verbs as adjectives.


-----Original Message-----
From: Bryan Rocine <596547 AT ican.net>
To: Biblical Hebrew <b-hebrew AT franklin.oit.unc.edu>
Date: Monday, November 23, 1998 5:11 PM
Subject: Re: 1 Kgs 1:40


>Dear Lee, Peter, and others:
>
>Aha..trying to pull a fast one, eh!?  ;-)
>
>Your surface structures are conveniently similar.  But are the underlying
>notions?  Try a test.  Put the word "with" in your evenly numbered
>sentences and your translation of 1 Ki 1:40.  Are the results English?
>
>He was singing with a great song.  Hmm...
>...was graphing with a great graph.  Nope.
>...was painting with a great painting.  Good way to wreck a great painting
>...was carving with a great carving.  Another silly picture.
>They were rejoicing with a great rejoicing.  Ahh...perfect sense.
>
>Why?  Because even in your Eng translation, "rejoicing" is intransitive.  A
>preposition, something like "with" has elided from the surface structure
>"...rejoicing a great rejoicing."  It's in the notional structure.  Even in
>English, "great rejoicing" is adverbal rather than accusative.
>
>btw,  no matter how we parse it, s:mexiym g:dolah in 1 Ki 1:40 has the
>notional structure, "the rejoicing was great."
>
>Shalom,
>Bryan
>
>----------
>> From: Lee R. Martin <lmartin AT vol.com>
>> To: Biblical Hebrew <b-hebrew AT franklin.oit.unc.edu>
>> Subject: Re: 1 Kgs 1:40
>> Date: Monday, November 23, 1998 11:48 AM
>>
>> In support of Peter Kirk, I would like to add a few English examples to
>his discussion
>> of transitive verbs.  Note the following.
>> 1. He was singing.
>> 2. He was singing a great song.
>> 3. She is graphing.
>> 4. She is graphing a great graph.
>> 5. They are painting.
>> 6. They are painting a great painting.
>> 7. He was carving.
>> 8. He was carving a great carving.
>>
>> Are 2,4, 6, and 8 transitive?
>> What is different about 1Ki. 1:40?  "They were rejoicing a great
>rejoicing."
>> I don't see any difference between this Hebrew sentence and the ones in
>English
>> above.  In both cases, the verbs may be either transitive or
>intransitive.
>> Lee Martin
>
>
>B. M. Rocine
>Associate Pastor
>Living Word Church
>6101 Court St. Rd.
>Syracuse, NY 13208
>
>315-437-6744(w)
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>
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